ATF Fluids

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Here is another formulation for a Group I/III ATF fluid: Succinimide dispersant 3.0% Anti-wear Package 0.02% 65 neutral base oil 12% Group III base oil, KV @ 100.degree. C. = 4.0 cSt 75% Surfactant 0.01% Calcium phenate, low based detergent 0.025% antioxidant 0.3% anti-rust agent 0.05% Silicone antifoam agent 0.015% Red dye 0.015% Viscosity index improver (VII) 8.55% Friction Modification 0.68% These perecentages vary widely among formulators. Here is another, a Blend of mineral and synthetic oils: White oil 41.00% Mineral oil 28% PAO 4 8.0% PAO 6 12.0% Antioxidant 1 0.10% Antioxidant 2 0.10% ATF addpack 11% Copper deactivator 0.03% Antifoam agent 0.004% [ March 15, 2006, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
Most ATF seal swell agents today are composed of esters: tris (C8-C24 hydrocarbyl) phosphite ester Bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester phosphoric acid Dihexyl Phthalate ester and the azelamides such as: N,N'-dimethyl-N,N'-dihexylazelamide, N,N'-dimethyl-N,N'-di2-ethylhexylazelamide, N,N'-dimethyl-N,N'-di-2-ethylhexylsebacamide
 
"Friction Modification 0.68%" Is this used to increase, or reduce friction? or a little of both to adjust to a desired level? thanks. Also I'm considering high milage atf in my old f150, I see that it's slightly thicker , 8.5 vs 7.2 in the product line I'm looking at. Is this the only difference, or do fiddle with the additve package too? thansk again
 
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I see that it's slightly thicker , 8.5 vs 7.2 in the product line I'm looking at. Is this the only difference, or do fiddle with the additve package too? thansk again
Not only is the base slightly thicker, but they add a bit more boron, calcium, and phos, maybe 50-100 ppm more of each.
 
In fact, ATF is the most additized of all lubricants, next is hydraulic tractor fluid (or UTF's), and then PCMO's. The unseen additives in ATF are anti-oxidants, dispersants, special friction modifiers, anti-foam, anti-rust agents, seal swell additives, anti-corrosion additives, and metal inhibitors for copper and aluminum.
 
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Slam the ATF in an engine all you want. But what I know is, and from what I've experienced is... Dumping a litre into the crank will do [censored] all. Dumping out the old oil, refilling with a nice synthetic ATF and maybe a tin of engine flush, with a new filter on a engine that has been running amsoil 5w30. Resulted in one plugged filter hitting the bypass after 2 minutes of alternating the idle. The ATF that went in cherry red, came out black like tar, stank like rotting gym socks, and the refill of Redline 5w30 stayed clear for 800-1000km. It's like All Bran but for your engine.
 
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which [what is] the base oil is used for ATF
The base oil for non-synthetic ATF's is GroupII or II+ ; usually used for DexronIII/Mercon and Universal run-of-the-mill ATFs. They usually start out with a 4 cSt base oil and thicken it with Viscoity Index Improvers or VIIs. It's the thin viscosity, rather than the additives that gives it a flushing effect. I would not use ATF either by itself or with a can of motor flush to clean an engine. There is low-level anti-wear additive package in these fluids but not suited for engines. I prefer to use frequent oil changes and or ARX. For GM's DexronVI it is GroupIII. For full-synthetic ATFs such as Redline, Amsoil, and Mobil, they use predominately PAO's with low dosages of GroupIV compounds.
 
Some motorcycle riders use ATF as a lube for their o-ring chains. (O-ring chains have an o-ring between the side plates to seal lube between the pin and bushing. The bushing-to-roller interface and the roller-to-sprocket still need lube.) So...would ATF be much good for this given the small amount of AW and no EP in it, or is it working just because some lube is better than no lube, and ATF isn't sticky and won't hold much grit? There are perpetual discussions of chain wax lube, chain sticky lube, gear oil, used engine oil, WD-40, chainsaw bar & chain oil (very tacky), and dry lubes like DuPont Teflon Multi Purpose spray, dry spray with moly & graphite in a volatile penetrant, and others.
 
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So...would ATF be much good for this given the small amount of AW and no EP in it, or is it working just because some lube is better than no lube, and ATF isn't sticky and won't hold much grit?
That's about it.
 
Interesting thread... One more question as I can't follow all the details here How would ATF rate when used as the transmission oil for a 2-stroke motorcycle engine?
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
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which [what is] the base oil is used for ATF
The base oil for non-synthetic ATF's is GroupII or II+ ; usually used for DexronIII/Mercon and Universal run-of-the-mill ATFs. They usually start out with a 4 cSt base oil and thicken it with Viscoity Index Improvers or VIIs.
I just asked the question about 2-strokes bikes using this oil in their transmissions but after re-reading this part about using VIIs here is news to me also and I'd guess ATF fluid is suspect to shear breakdown just like a multi-grade motor oil... And it starts life with the lower grades oil types. Is this true of the true synthetic (non crude ) ATF fluids? Plus I'm not sure about the 4 cSt to viscosity conversation but this sounds an ATF starts life at a very low wt. PS -- I don't mean to crash UR thread here but you guys seem to know your stuff on ATF fluids.
 
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One could use a DexronVI type fluid since the shearing has been shown to be almost zip if you are worried about shearing. One the other end of the scale is the High Mileage ATF's which start out with a higher viscosity.
 
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Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
I saw RP 75W-140 at AZ for $16/qt shocked
teh average factory price of the barrel of 4L (4qt?) of 100% syntetic is 100€ google Tabela_Precos_Castrol_Distribui_PVP2008.07.pdf or 0000_tabelasPrecosPVP08_BP_3.pdf and you see the kind of oil prices are recommended around here portugal (europe) for the 100€/4L get it by 70€ in supermarkets on ebay and other sites one can get better prices by looking at the references... one can also see what oils are syntetic and mineral
 
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