Antimony Additives

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bel-ray mc oil had a big shot of antimony at one time. It was listed on here years ago in the cat oil papers.
 
Ey Mola, have you ever written a wp about Barium detergent? It was used a lot in the past on higher quality premium oils and there's a trend to its come back?
 
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Ey Mola, have you ever written a wp about Barium detergent? It was used a lot in the past on higher quality premium oils and there's a trend to its come back?



Hey, R-P-0.
smile.gif


If it is coming back in limited HDEO's, then the countries in which those HDEO's are produced must not have any EPA-type bureaucrats.

Synthetic barium dinonylnaphthalene sulfonic acid is mostly used for rust inhibition purposes.

Barium is one of those heavy metals that are looked down on because of retention in the biosphere, thus not readily bio-degradable, and considered toxic in certain concentrations.
 
Any EPA or toxicity issues with Sb in the oil industry? I know there are in other industries, which effectively cuts down on the use of it - but those involve very high temps.
 
There aren't many restrictions that I am aware of. It shows up on SDS sheets as a required disclosure but I don't know of any real restrictions on where it can be used aside from food grade lubricants.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Ey Mola, have you ever written a wp about Barium detergent? It was used a lot in the past on higher quality premium oils and there's a trend to its come back?



Hey, R-P-0.
smile.gif


If it is coming back in limited HDEO's, then the countries in which those HDEO's are produced must not have any EPA-type bureaucrats.

Synthetic barium dinonylnaphthalene sulfonic acid is mostly used for rust inhibition purposes.

Barium is one of those heavy metals that are looked down on because of retention in the biosphere, thus not readily bio-degradable, and considered toxic in certain concentrations.


Nice, thank you Mola! Environment problems as you said, but it was a good antirust? Harley Davidson oil used to have it high at 50ppm or more in its old 40 grade straight.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
There aren't many restrictions that I am aware of. It shows up on SDS sheets as a required disclosure but I don't know of any real restrictions on where it can be used aside from food grade lubricants.


As far as their Powersport lineup is concerned, Maxima products utilize upwards of 868 PPM of Antimony in their premium line of oil (Maxima Extra) along with 2500 PPM of Zinc and 2900 PPM of Phosphorus. Their additive packages are some of the most robust I've come across, as I've not seen another oil manufacturer use such high concentrations of Antimony.
 
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
There aren't many restrictions that I am aware of. It shows up on SDS sheets as a required disclosure but I don't know of any real restrictions on where it can be used aside from food grade lubricants.


As far as their Powersport lineup is concerned, Maxima products utilize upwards of 868 PPM of Antimony in their premium line of oil (Maxima Extra) along with 2500 PPM of Zinc and 2900 PPM of Phosphorus. Their additive packages are some of the most robust I've come across, as I've not seen another oil manufacturer use such high concentrations of Antimony.

2500 ppm zinc and 2900 ppm phos? I'm surprised there aren't more reports of engines being eaten alive by this stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
There aren't many restrictions that I am aware of. It shows up on SDS sheets as a required disclosure but I don't know of any real restrictions on where it can be used aside from food grade lubricants.


As far as their Powersport lineup is concerned, Maxima products utilize upwards of 868 PPM of Antimony in their premium line of oil (Maxima Extra) along with 2500 PPM of Zinc and 2900 PPM of Phosphorus. Their additive packages are some of the most robust I've come across, as I've not seen another oil manufacturer use such high concentrations of Antimony.

2500 ppm zinc and 2900 ppm phos? I'm surprised there aren't more reports of engines being eaten alive by this stuff.


Yeah, definitely not for the faint of heart! Redline is right behind them at 2125 PPM of Zinc and 2100 of Phosphorus, while Mobil 1 V-Twin follows with higher levels as well: 1750 PPM Zinc and 1600 PPM of Phosphorus.

Redline Average Additive Levels

Mobil 1 Zinc and Phosphorus Content
 
Originally Posted By: Analyzer

Yeah, definitely not for the faint of heart! Redline is right behind them at 2125 PPM of Zinc and 2100 of Phosphorus, while Mobil 1 V-Twin follows with higher levels as well: 1750 PPM Zinc and 1600 PPM of Phosphorus.

The M1 is somewhat reasonable with the right anti-corrosives, but I can't imagine the drain intervals for those others being very long. One and done race-wise I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
There aren't many restrictions that I am aware of. It shows up on SDS sheets as a required disclosure but I don't know of any real restrictions on where it can be used aside from food grade lubricants.


As far as their Powersport lineup is concerned, Maxima products utilize upwards of 868 PPM of Antimony in their premium line of oil (Maxima Extra) along with 2500 PPM of Zinc and 2900 PPM of Phosphorus. Their additive packages are some of the most robust I've come across, as I've not seen another oil manufacturer use such high concentrations of Antimony.

2500 ppm zinc and 2900 ppm phos? I'm surprised there aren't more reports of engines being eaten alive by this stuff.


Yeah, definitely not for the faint of heart! Redline is right behind them at 2125 PPM of Zinc and 2100 of Phosphorus, while Mobil 1 V-Twin follows with higher levels as well: 1750 PPM Zinc and 1600 PPM of Phosphorus.

Redline Average Additive Levels

Mobil 1 Zinc and Phosphorus Content


That RedLine is full of ZZDP, low Noak (5%) and 425ppm Moly, but is rated as API SJ, obsolete rating, that's odd, for a new oil. Well, I can use it in my vehicles, but when a vehicle calls SL SM SN, it can't be used.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
later API ratings have phosphorus limits so can't apply to the Red line oils


True, but low volativity reduces the amount of these compounds from reaching the cats.
 
That oil is not restricted by the phosphorus limits set by API. It is a 10W-40, exempt from the phosphorus restriction. If it were bound to the restriction it actually would not qualify as SJ either since SJ limits P to 1000 ppm for SAE 30's and below. In fact it wouldn't even meet SH standards with a 1200 ppm limit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top