hey guys like the title says how would this fluid do in this trans and has anybody used it in a manual trans? I am told it is highly friction modified so would that be good or bad for a manual trans that specs mercon fluid? thanks for any replies
atf+4 in m5od manual trans?
- Thread starter sevenznuf
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If your gonna deviate from the OEM specifications, Go for something that's a dedicated Synchromesh fluid
-ACDelco FM Synchro fluid
-Redline and Amsoil both make a good one
-I think ford makes one too
-ACDelco FM Synchro fluid
-Redline and Amsoil both make a good one
-I think ford makes one too
I have redline mtl in it now, but was reading about the +4 so it got me thinking about it because I aint heard much about it. the trans has 166000 miles on it and is worn. I have been trying different fluids to see which is the better (bandaid) for it until rebuild time.
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I am using RP Synchromax in my B2300 5sp. Pretty expensive and other people have reported it doesn't hold up well.
I've only got < 10K miles on it and I'm pretty happy with the shift feel.
I suspect for most bitog'rs using ATF+4 is not on the top 20 items they would use for this app.
I've only got < 10K miles on it and I'm pretty happy with the shift feel.
I suspect for most bitog'rs using ATF+4 is not on the top 20 items they would use for this app.
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as far as the "has anyone used it in a manual trans?" yes, not me personally,(I've just never owned a manual) but I'm fairly certain most any Chrysler Product in the last decade or so, excluding things like the newer ZF 8&9 speed units, spec'd atf+4 for their manual options. i know for a fact that it was the OE fill for manual neons (it was also used in the power steering system)
I wander if the neons have the brass synchros like this trans does? the redline in there now works decent after it warms up but its a little stiff when cold. and this stuff is expensive.
Originally Posted By: sevenznuf
I wander if the neons have the brass synchros like this trans does? the redline in there now works decent after it warms up but its a little stiff when cold. and this stuff is expensive.
Reading this Allpar Article on the NVG t-350 , I came across this:
"All forward ratios were synchronized, with high capacity dual-cone brass synchronizers in first and second gear and single-cone synchronizers of a paper friction material on the other gears (it is more durable and clash-resistant than brass). The paper-friction synchronizers are on the input shaft, lowering shift effort by cutting rotating inertia. A reverse brake mechanism minimized reverse engagement clash."
so...yes and no...
I wander if the neons have the brass synchros like this trans does? the redline in there now works decent after it warms up but its a little stiff when cold. and this stuff is expensive.
Reading this Allpar Article on the NVG t-350 , I came across this:
"All forward ratios were synchronized, with high capacity dual-cone brass synchronizers in first and second gear and single-cone synchronizers of a paper friction material on the other gears (it is more durable and clash-resistant than brass). The paper-friction synchronizers are on the input shaft, lowering shift effort by cutting rotating inertia. A reverse brake mechanism minimized reverse engagement clash."
so...yes and no...
You would be the guinea pig on this one. I have never heard of ATF+4 being run in an M5OD, but I can't imagine it would kill it either. Gear oil can.
I'd probably be more inclined to experiment with Synchromesh and the like if I was unhappy with shift quality.
Most M5ODs live a long life on Mercon. Mine took a lot of abuse with just plain Mercon in it, never a problem. I liked to dump the clutch in that truck too...a 2.5L can leave tire marks.
How is yours worn at only 166K? What are the symptoms indicating it's worn? Are you sure it's not a worn out clutch or slave cylinder that has started leaking slightly? A truly worn out M5OD at 166K, especially with Redline fluid, is one [censored] of an anomaly. Most of these transmissions will go much longer than that on the factory fill.
I'd probably be more inclined to experiment with Synchromesh and the like if I was unhappy with shift quality.
Most M5ODs live a long life on Mercon. Mine took a lot of abuse with just plain Mercon in it, never a problem. I liked to dump the clutch in that truck too...a 2.5L can leave tire marks.
How is yours worn at only 166K? What are the symptoms indicating it's worn? Are you sure it's not a worn out clutch or slave cylinder that has started leaking slightly? A truly worn out M5OD at 166K, especially with Redline fluid, is one [censored] of an anomaly. Most of these transmissions will go much longer than that on the factory fill.
I'm using Mobil 1 ATF in my M5OD with no issues at all. I'm looking into swapping it with Maxlife at my next fluid change.
01rangerxl the redline has only been in for about a month. what I mean by worn is the synchros seem to hit a little when shifting and fifth gear has slight whine( redline did quiet it down some) and it has a new clutch and slave cyl. same issue before and after clutch replacement.
Originally Posted By: sevenznuf
hey guys like the title says how would this fluid do in this trans and has anybody used it in a manual trans? I am told it is highly friction modified so would that be good or bad for a manual trans that specs mercon fluid? thanks for any replies
Yes, Chrysler has, in the NV T350 (neon) and NV T850 (SRT4) that I know of , wouldn't be surprised if lot's more. Whine is usually bearings not synchros. Try double clutching, that help bring the speed of the two gears close together reducing the effort and wear on the rings, it is more laborious but better.
hey guys like the title says how would this fluid do in this trans and has anybody used it in a manual trans? I am told it is highly friction modified so would that be good or bad for a manual trans that specs mercon fluid? thanks for any replies
Yes, Chrysler has, in the NV T350 (neon) and NV T850 (SRT4) that I know of , wouldn't be surprised if lot's more. Whine is usually bearings not synchros. Try double clutching, that help bring the speed of the two gears close together reducing the effort and wear on the rings, it is more laborious but better.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: sevenznuf
hey guys like the title says how would this fluid do in this trans and has anybody used it in a manual trans? I am told it is highly friction modified so would that be good or bad for a manual trans that specs mercon fluid? thanks for any replies
One thing you should be aware of is that when manf. speak of Friction Modifiers they are speaking of the friction modifiers for that specific fluid, in this case an ATF.
There are different friction modifiers for ATFs, MTLs, differentials, and engine oils.
An ATF friction modifier is not the same as an MTL friction modifier, is not the same as a PCMO friction modifier, is not the same as a differential lube friction modifier.
Quote:
Here is what application-specific (Dedicated) MTLs consist of:
1. Base oils of various types and viscosities to make a specific viscosity and have anti-shear properties
2. GL-4 Performance Improvement (PI additive package) chemistry which consists of the following
a) GL-4 anti-wear (AW) additives
b) anti-rust additive
c) copper and aluminum metal deactivator/buffering agent
d) anti-foamant
e) special friction modifier (FM)
f) dye
Application Specific = Dedicated.
hey guys like the title says how would this fluid do in this trans and has anybody used it in a manual trans? I am told it is highly friction modified so would that be good or bad for a manual trans that specs mercon fluid? thanks for any replies
One thing you should be aware of is that when manf. speak of Friction Modifiers they are speaking of the friction modifiers for that specific fluid, in this case an ATF.
There are different friction modifiers for ATFs, MTLs, differentials, and engine oils.
An ATF friction modifier is not the same as an MTL friction modifier, is not the same as a PCMO friction modifier, is not the same as a differential lube friction modifier.
Quote:
Here is what application-specific (Dedicated) MTLs consist of:
1. Base oils of various types and viscosities to make a specific viscosity and have anti-shear properties
2. GL-4 Performance Improvement (PI additive package) chemistry which consists of the following
a) GL-4 anti-wear (AW) additives
b) anti-rust additive
c) copper and aluminum metal deactivator/buffering agent
d) anti-foamant
e) special friction modifier (FM)
f) dye
Application Specific = Dedicated.
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You could maybe try Pennzoil Synchromesh,and it`s dirt cheap at AZ too.
Quote:
I'm using Mobil 1 ATF in my M5OD with no issues at all. I'm looking into swapping it with Maxlife at my next fluid change.
I went the other way around. I had Maxlife then went Mobil 1 ATF in a 2009 Ranger. Mobil 1 was much improved performance in all temps. I'll use Mobil 1 from now on.
I'm using Mobil 1 ATF in my M5OD with no issues at all. I'm looking into swapping it with Maxlife at my next fluid change.
I went the other way around. I had Maxlife then went Mobil 1 ATF in a 2009 Ranger. Mobil 1 was much improved performance in all temps. I'll use Mobil 1 from now on.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
You could maybe try Pennzoil Synchromesh,and it`s dirt cheap at AZ too.
+1 . Way better then any ATF for a MT.
Wayne
You could maybe try Pennzoil Synchromesh,and it`s dirt cheap at AZ too.
+1 . Way better then any ATF for a MT.
Wayne
M50D is a Ford Manual 5 speed found in there Rangerr trucks. That uses atf not mtl.
Mtl way to thick. Probably shifts like molasses.
I had the same truck and installed Redline D4 in it and worked 100% better. No more second gear snick.
Mtl way to thick. Probably shifts like molasses.
I had the same truck and installed Redline D4 in it and worked 100% better. No more second gear snick.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Raybo
M50D is a Ford Manual 5 speed found in there Rangerr trucks. That uses atf not mtl.
Mtl way to thick. Probably shifts like molasses.
I had the same truck and installed Redline D4 in it and worked 100% better. No more second gear snick.
The dedicated MTLs, such as those below, are not thick as molasses, as you exaggerate:
Quote:
A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2
M50D is a Ford Manual 5 speed found in there Rangerr trucks. That uses atf not mtl.
Mtl way to thick. Probably shifts like molasses.
I had the same truck and installed Redline D4 in it and worked 100% better. No more second gear snick.
The dedicated MTLs, such as those below, are not thick as molasses, as you exaggerate:
Quote:
A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2
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