ATF+4 Choices and Amsoil

[Johnny248]

I've read a few posts here and there stating that the Amsoil Multi AFT is not a good choice for Chrysler vehicles that require ATF+4. Why this is, I'm not sure. What is the thoughts on this? Amsoil's site shows a comparison of the ATF+4 and Amsoil ATF protection after 100k and a tear down of the transmission. Looks good to me. What is strange though is that on their product page for the Fuel Efficient ATF which doesn't list ATF+4 as compatible, they show the same tear down info vs ATF+4.

Does anyone have any long term results with the Amsoil in an ATF+4 spec'd transmission? I am going to change the fluid in my ram in the next 5-8k or so, and just looking ahead. Should I stick with Mopar ATF+4? another branded product? (Castrol Syn ATF+4 product sheet looks like it's fluid has some really good specs. I don't know how they compare to Mopar ATF+4) or go with the Amsoil Multi ATF?

 

[RiceCake]

Easy. ATF+4 is a very specific fluid type. AMSOIL's ATF on the other hand is a very generic type that they "recommend" for everything, but the reality is its a hyperfied Dexron/Mercon like fluid. Its impossible for it to satisfy everything out there because some are thicker, some are thinner, some need plenty of friction modifiers, some call for none. AMSOIL's ATF essentially eyeballs a midpoint.

Jack of all trades, master of none. Many Chrylser automatics died on anything but ATF+4 so its highly recommended to use ATF+4, which is designed specifically for your transmission and is already a pretty quality synthetic (ATF+4 specifications are fairly rugged in terms of the performance of oil required and the additives required to pass certification. Any ATF+4 will be synthetic.) While I'm sure AMSOIL is great but there's one thing its definitely not: ATF+4 certified.




The bonus though is -any- fluid meeting ATF+4 licensed specs will be a really fine product. Just buy whats cheapest, never had an issue in my 41TE.

http://www.centerforqa.com/licensedatf4brands.html

 

[toneydoc]

Just changed transmission fluid in my 1994 Jeep and put in ATF+4. Use what is recommended. Hopefully your transmission will last a long time.

 

[Kuato]

First, you can't go wrong with an actual ATF+4, since as RiceCake pointed out it's a tough certification. I've been using the NAPA green bottle ATF+4 for around 80k miles with no problems. It's 1/2 the cost of ATF+4 from the dealer. I've also used Castrol ATF+4 with no issues.


That said, Amsoil doesn't usually get any certifications for any of it's products, I expect since they cost money (and insert discussion about liability, etc here). Whether or not the Amsoil ATF would pass for the ATF+4 certification is unknown.

However, the Las Vegas taxi test on the Amsoil site was done with Dodge Chargers I believe, and they went 100k miles on one change. The lack of wear and sludge speaks well for the fluid.

There were Chrysler transmissions that failed back in the day, reportedly due to use of non-ATF+4. Was it the lack of ATF+4, or would the failures have occurred anyway? Mopars did have a bad run on transmissions in the 90s.

FWIW in my previous Grand Cherokee (2000) I used Amsoil ATF from about 80k, all the way up to 145k, and it was shifting fine when I traded it.

 

[oilmaven]

Agreed that any brand ATF+4 will work fine. When I had the PT Cruiser I switched it over to Redline C+ which is their synthetic ATF designed to meet ATF+4 specs. It's more expensive but I figured I could run it longer so the price difference was moot. Plus, I really like Redline lubes...using the D4 in the 'ol minivan...shifts great. The C+ was still in the car when I sold it. In 106,000 miles I never had a trans (or motor for that matter) issue with that car.

 

[RamFan]

If I were you I would not choose a fluid that isn't on the approved list. I will be changing the fluid in my Charger in the next couple of weeks with the following:

For only $4.69 at O'reilly I don't think it can be beat.

 

[147_Grain]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Does anyone have any long term results with the Amsoil in an ATF+4 spec'd transmission?


For our kid's transportation needs...........: We've put 100,000 miles on a 2005 Dodge Neon with 4-speed automatic that required ATF+4 fluid and have not had any problems with Amsoil's MultiVehicle ATF.

I drain and replace 4 quarts out of the transmission each spring and transmission still shifts firmly. Annual LOF changes with Signature Series 0w30 keep MPG at 29 combined.

IMHO: Keeping fresh fluid in Chrysler's weak transmissions (in the Neon) has been a key to longevity.

 

[tomcat27]

I've used Amsoil ATF in 3 different Intrepids/LH's; a 96 Sebring (180k miles), 89 Comanche (200k miles with alot of towing) and my 98 Ram which pulls my 6000 lb boat,loaded with 5 people in the truck, fully loaded, and dual A/C running in the summer. Certainly I've used Amsoil ATF for over 18 years and in many other cars and trucks besides the ones listed above. Is ATF+4 a good fluid? Yes, was ATF+3 a good fluid? No, it wore out in 30k miles. Is Amsoil ATF a good product - absolutely!

I'm also impressed with Amsoil's signature series oil and the test results from their run in the Taxi fleet. the 2.7 engine is a sludger - but theirs certainly looked clean.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
AMSOIL's ATF on the other hand is a very generic type that they "recommend" for everything......


Actually you are incorrect. Not at all recommended for "everything". Amsoil makes 6 types of ATF.

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I've read a few posts here and there stating that the Amsoil Multi AFT is not a good choice for Chrysler vehicles that require ATF+4.


I'd love to see these posts. There was one guy maybe 6-8 years ago who posted and said his Chrysler transmission "slipped" when he used ATF. On the other hand many posters have had positive long running experiences with Amsoil. I've sold quite a bit of ATF to people with Chrysler vehicles and not one complaint - I know that doesn't mean much, but we are talking about some of the worst modern AT's unleashed on the USA/Canada public with the exception of some Honda AT's.

My recommendation for any Amsoil ATF user is not to have a blend. Always best to do a full flush.

 

[NHHEMI]

Amsoil ATF( the one rated for ATF+4 use )will work no problem. You do not have to use a certified ATF+4. Royal Purple MaxATF also works great as a replacement for ATF+4( personal experience in a couple Rams )if it is easier for you to find or you prefer RP to Amsoil. If Amsoil is your prefered brand run it with no worries.

NOTE - if your Ram still is under warranty DO NOT use any universal fluid! Not Amsoil, not RP, not any brand. Use a specific ATF+4. Valvoline ATF+4 is a very popular transmission fluid for ATF+4 applications( on the Dodge truck forums ). No warranty then a universal that is rated for use in ATF+4 applications is fine.

 

[dishdude]

My 1998 A604 has had nothing but ATF+4 since new and still shifts like it's 1999.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Amsoil ATF( the one rated for ATF+4 use )will work no problem. You do not have to use a certified ATF+4.


[censored] hath no fury like A604/41TE owners, I wouldn't go shaking around a big stick of AMSOIL like that. Thousands of failures and poor shifting has been attributed to using the wrong fluid in many a Chryslers...why spend more for AMSOIL when there's a known history of issues?

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
If I were you I would not choose a fluid that isn't on the approved list. I will be changing the fluid in my Charger in the next couple of weeks with the following:

For only $4.69 at O'reilly I don't think it can be beat.


I used that in my PS because it had the lowest cold viscosity that I could find out there, but I think its about 6.99/qt anywhere I've seen it near me.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain

IMHO: Keeping fresh fluid in Chrysler's weak transmissions (in the Neon) has been a key to longevity.


+1, regardless of whether an AT is weak or not, they were designed for fresh fluid and pan drops/refills will likely extend the life of any AT.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

I would consider Redline C+ Atf for your application.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Amsoil ATF( the one rated for ATF+4 use )will work no problem. You do not have to use a certified ATF+4.


[censored] hath no fury like A604/41TE owners, I wouldn't go shaking around a big stick of AMSOIL like that. Thousands of failures and poor shifting has been attributed to using the wrong fluid in many a Chryslers...why spend more for AMSOIL when there's a known history of issues?


#1 - I am a MOPAR guys and know all about Chryslers and what works and doesn't.

#2 - am hardly shaking an Amsoil stick as I am not a fan of the company at all. I don't judge what others use. People have been using Amsoil in place of ATF+4 with NO problems for a LONG LONG time. I may not like the company but they make excellent products. The OP asked if he could use it and the answer is absolutely.

#3 - you spend more for Amsoil because it is a better product.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
I would consider Redline C+ Atf for your application.


Looking at the Redline C+, Castrol Transmax ATF+4, Valvoine ATF+4

RL Castrol Valvoline
Visc@100 7.5 7.5 7.55
Visc@40 32.3 33.0 34.13
Visc Index 213 206 198
Flash Point f 432 374 384

I've been unable to find any data sheets on the actual Mopar ATF+4, but I would assume it would be similar to what is above. The Viscosity is similar across the board, however the RL and Castrol have better VI numbers and cold flow. So, my next question becomes how do these fluids hold up over time? Which is going to last the longest while retaining its original characteristics. When reading about the the development of ATF+4 it appears that the original characteristics between +3 and +4 and very similar when new, however the +3 falls off quickly approaching 30k, whereas the +4 was developed to maintain the fluid quality up to 100k. That being said, is there any advantage to paying the extra money for a product like Redline if from what I can tell, all of the +4 certified oils should remain in good shape towards that 100k mark if the original engineering of the +4 does what it is supposed to do.

I like the higher VI of the Redline, but in the real world, is there really an advantage of one over the other?

 

[147_Grain]

Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF / Redline C+ / Castrol Transmax ATF+4 / Valvoline ATF+4

Visc @ 100: 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.55
Visc @ 40: 38.5 32.3 33.0 34.13
Visc Index: 165 213 206 198
Flash Point: 453 432 374 384

 

[cat843]

Amsoil.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain


Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF / Redline C+ / Castrol Transmax ATF+4 / Valvoline ATF+4

Visc @ 100: 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.55
Visc @ 40: 38.5 32.3 33.0 34.13
Visc Index: 165 213 206 198
Flash Point: 453 432 374 384


Why is the viscosity index so much lower with Amsoil. And does that make any difference?
I have always liked Amsoil and believe if they claim something that it can be taken as truth but I find it odd that the fluids listed that are actually ATF+ 4 certified have a VI 25% higher than the Amsoil fluid.
Again I don't know if that is a concern when the transmission is in operation.
Thanks for posting this info 147 grain.