At what point do you say "That costs too much"?

[Sam_Julier]

At my skill level the price for the Snap On set simply doesn’t make sense.

My current tools are:

Ratchets: Williams, Olsa and Tekton
Wrenches: Stahlwille, Tekton and Craftman (30 year old USA forged)
Torque wrench: CDI
Sockets: Williams, Tekton, Craftman, Husky
Pliers: Tekton
Screwdrivers: Williams

They are serving me well until @Trav or @Astro14 suggests an upgrade .

 

[Trav]

All good stuff Sam! Some of the old Craftsman stuff were high quality tools made by top shelf manufacturers. Some of their older pro wrenches that have a little "k" stamped in them are SK and not seconds either. the Williams stuff is very good, the round head ratchets are a favorite.

 

[wag123]

If you are making 100 bucks an hour, you don't really think too much about the price of tools.

You are kidding, right?
You do understand that the technicians pay for their own tools, right?
As of Nov 28, 2021, the average hourly pay for a Commission Auto Mechanic in the United States is $20.98 an hour. While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $35.58 and as low as $9.13, the majority of Commission Auto Mechanic wages currently range between $15.14 (25th percentile) to $24.28 (75th percentile) across the United States.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Commission-Auto-Mechanic-Salary-per-Hour

 

[64bawagon]

Dont confuse a $100 per hour shop rate with what the tech actually makes

 

[Job]

The Williams sockets USA are supposed to be identical, but priced much less. So that’s a mystery.
There are no $100 shop rates I know of anymore. Technically a shop charges more than my doctor visit now for an hour. Doctor has overhead, office staff etc too. Since that’s the side topic.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

sk wright


Posted from my Potato.

 

[Astro14]

SK and Wright, both make fine tools. I’ve got some of those as well. Ratchets, sockets, and wrenches.

 

[willbur]

Snap on has always been priced high. But in the last few years they have gone overboard on pricing. Yes they are very high quality but are they worth 8x what a comparable Husky or Kobalt set costs?

I don't think so. There is no way that I would pay this kind of price.

If you are a professional tech employed in a trade that requires tools, supplies etc, can't you deduct these costs from your tax, through cost of doing business or depreciation (or both)? This results in a much lower end cost to you than the upfront costs that you are citing. Snap On knows this and targets techs, charging ultra-high purchase prices that are reduced at tax time. They reap hugh profits and the techs get superb tools at reduced prices. Win win except for taxpayers who subsidize Snap On.

 

[Chris142]

If you are a professional tech employed in a trade that requires tools, supplies etc, can't you deduct these costs from your tax, through cost of doing business or depreciation (or both)? This results in a much lower end cost to you than the upfront costs that you are citing. Snap On knows this and targets techs, charging ultra-high purchase prices that are reduced at tax time. They reap hugh profits and the techs get superb tools at reduced prices. Win win except or taxpayers who subsidize Snap On.

Nope. I tried to deduct tool costs and was told by the tax man that I could not.

 

[bchannell]

When people stop paying those exorbitant prices and stop biting on their payment plans, they'll have to fall in line. I saw it for over 30 years in factory maintenance, and it made me sick how they ripped the unsuspecting guys off.

 

[willbur]

That’s a crazy price for what you get.

However, good tools are worth the price premium over Husky, etc. if you’re a serious mechanic.

Cheap tools do not perform as well as good tools. Cheap sockets and wrenches are fine on most work, but on some work, particularly with rusty or difficult fasteners, cheap tools will round out a bolt head, requiring welding or drilling, where good quality tools would have removed the fastener.

In those cases, cases that the serious mechanic often encounters, good tools are worth every penny of the price premium.

Stahlwille wrenches. Williams sockets. Hazet bits. Proto wrenches. Basically, every tool that @Trav has ever recommended, and that I’ve bought, have been worth the price premium over the cheap stuff, like Kobalt and Husky I bought years ago.

Ironically, the Sears Craftsman tools given to me by my father over 40 years ago remain in service because of their quality. But Craftsman tools that I bought several years ago are junk.

I regret my waste of money on tools like Kobalt and Husky, and recent Craftsman, I should’ve saved up for better tools. I wish I had Trav to guide me ten years ago.

Agree. S-O tools will get into places the cheaper stuff can't. Thinner, stronger, and better made

 

[wag123]

If you are a professional tech employed in a trade that requires tools, supplies etc, can't you deduct these costs from your tax, through cost of doing business or depreciation (or both)? This results in a much lower end cost to you than the upfront costs that you are citing. Snap On knows this and targets techs, charging ultra-high purchase prices that are reduced at tax time. They reap hugh profits and the techs get superb tools at reduced prices. Win win except for taxpayers who subsidize Snap On.

Not unless you are an independent contractor, in other words, you work for yourself.

 

[willbur]

Nope. I tried to deduct tool costs and was told by the tax man that I could not.

See another tax man? I am reluctant to provide comments on tax matters. Just participating in the discussion

 

[Saabist]

But you can pay weekly....

 

[Dave9]

They are professional tools. If you are making 100 bucks an hour, you don't really think too much about the price of tools.

Typically a dealer will come to your shop and sell you what you need.

Practically nobody is making 100 bucks an hour off labor. They are charging that much but only due to overhead, so I feel your analysis is way, way off.

Since you are making way less than 100/hr, it's still as relevant as ever to consider the cost:benefit ratio.

I go back to what I already stated, having backup tools. It is insane to me to pay over twice as much as median brands, and have a single tool instead of duplicates. THAT is what you need if you are a pro because high end tools break too.

Coming to your shop, is like a desperate island of despair compared to getting a job done with the duplicate tools. The whole snap on model was only the tiniest bit sensible back when there wasn't not only the internet but also not hardware stores every few miles.

Granted, hardware stores don't carry some specialty tools but if you want to extend that argument, neither does the tool truck.

Snap on is not for pros, it's for ignorant people who don't have enough experience to get the job done without some pretend hand-holding safety net which isn't a net at all unless when your tool breaks, the dealer hops in his truck, has authorization to turn on emergency siren and lights, and blow past traffic to get you a new tool at a moment's notice. Outside of that, you can pick up a new tool just as fast with amazon next day if not carried locally.

Snap on is a dinosaur who can't adapt, and has only survived due to offering credit to young ignorant mechanics who needed a break and didn't realize that all the competitors from overseas have upped their game to where it doesn't matter nearly as much if a tool is made in USA. That is sad but the truth.

The sadder part is snap on is still around while sears went under... not that they are an outlet for high quality tools in their showroom offerings opposed to their pro line, but the store distribution model is far less antiquated than the tool truck distribution model.

 

[KenshinHimura]

Wright, Channellock, Midwest, Vaughn, and Eklind are all of my benchmark brands. If anything costs more than those products then i need to justify to myself the extra cost.

 

[Job]

If there had been a tool truck where I worked I would probably have all of it by now. They did have a shoe truck come around which was odd, red wing shoes I think. Bringing things to the working people on a clock, like the food truck, works.

 

[Lane]

As a retired guy who turns wrenches, I’ve given up on shopping by brand. Mostly I look for OLD tools. The Craftsman (and Ward’s PowrKraft) that I bought 40+ years ago are good. The ones I inherited from Dad are better. Project Farm recently did a comparison of adjustable wrenches (Crescent is a copyrighted name), and he included an old Craftsman that he’d bought used. No surprise which wrench was best.

FUNNY story: We all know Harbor Fright advertising likes to compare their tool with a big name maker, showing the specs are the same, but HF “wins” because they cost much less. Not long ago, they claimed one of their floor jacks “beat” Snap-On for that reason. Snap-On sued. It came out at trial that the Snap-On jack came from the same Chinese factory as the HF jack! Snap-On should have kept quiet.

Oh, just FYI: we all recall the good old Vise-Grips made by Peterson in DeWitt, Nebraska. But Peterson and the Vise-Grip name got sold, went to China, putting people in DeWitt on the street after working in that plant for 15-20-25 years or more. Well... a company called Malco, which has made tools in America since 1950, bought that factory and pit many of those people back to work. If you want brand new real American Vise-Grips, look for Malco Eagle Grip (Malco does not own the name, so can’t call ‘em Vise-Grips). They are not cheap, but check Project Farm’s locking pliers comparison and see who won.

Again, for a Joe Average wrench turner at home, finding good used tools is the way to go. A used Phillips screwdriver that still has a good tip is going to be made of good steel. And sometimes they are interesting. Ever see a 5/8” square drive Snap-On extension or a double ended Crescent wrench?

 

[D60]

I'm late to the party but a few thoughts, experiences and opinions:

1. I used to think SnapOn was "snobby," primarily because of their customers who posted on forums like this (note: NOT BITOG specifically) and acted like their feces lacked odor.

Then, I had a 54" box I had purchased second hand and the lid struts failed. I called SnapOn and expected the royal interrogation along with pictorial proof I had a drawer in said box dedicated to Grey Poupon. Instead, they were super helpful and friendly and sent me out new struts. They didn't ask how many SnapOn tools I owned (at the time it was like TWO including said box) or if I knew the secret handshake.

I had an old coarse tooth (like 25 or 27T?) 3/8" stubby ratchet I got from my dad. It desperately needed a rebuild. I called SnapOn, gave them the item #, they said wow, that is old....let's see if we can find a kit for it....several days later a rebuild kit arrived.

In short, SnapOn corporate was NOTHING like the snobby, arrogant users who appear on the interwebs. This shouldn't be shocking given the nature of the internet, I realize.

Then I had a straight blade screwdriver I snapped the tip using as a pry bar of course. I stopped by a local truck and he replaced the shank for me.

With SnapOn some of what you're paying for is lifetime support. Granted, other companies offer this, too, and for the home gamer it doesn't always make sense or matter.

2. You can say SnapOn is a dinosaur but their stock consistently trades well, all things considered. They're doing something right, although I kinda wonder how the EV market will change the trade overall.

3. Most of SnapOn's stuff is still Made in the USA. I'm not saying this should or should not matter to you -- I'm just saying IF you care, it's something to consider.

3. SK has recently struggled in a MAJOR way with their new LP90 ratchets which were supposed to be the next great thing. They're also Made in the US and they're beautiful but like blondes in the passenger seat of sports cars, largely non-functional or problematic beyond that because they don't work well. I have a 1/2" that is "good" but currently struggling to warranty a 3/8" that is literally unable to be used -- I took it apart and lubed it and shortened the spring but it made ZERO difference.

SK has struggled with buy-outs and upheavals at the corporate level for years. For awhile there was NO SK to call, and even once Ideal tried to revive them it was like a reset: parts for the "old" tools were NLA

The new Proto ratchets are freakin' beautiful AND work well but they're in the same ballpark as SnapOn for pricing. Tekton is a fantastic budget brand and their warranty support is SOLID.

4. As for the premise of the thread, I agree nearly $1k is outrageous and I suspect they'll only sell a few at that price, mostly to GSA types where the purchasing agent is spending taxpayer money and has no concept of the value of money, or at least money in the tool market

 

[jeepman3071]

In my experience, those who buy Snap-On brand new usually do so because it's convenient (tool truck) or because they want to tell everyone they bought Snap-On. I have a few snap-on tools, but all were bought used on ebay or tag sales for a good price. Most of my tools are the old Craftsman and SK stuff bought used on ebay. I haven't noticed any difference between this stuff and the Snap-On, and I'm not someone who is easy on tools. I work on stuff ranging from small engines to heavy equipment, use pipes on 3/8" ratchets, etc. Never an issue except for the usual Chinesium sockets or wrenches which will never hold up to that kind of abuse.

I do fear that one day Snap-On will be the only non-China choice and anyone who does professional wrenching will have to pay whatever they ask.