Asbestos vs. Semi-Metallic

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bunnspecial

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I know this is probably a weird question to ask in nearly 2020, but it's something I was presented with today.

In my slow work toward getting the Marina roadworthy, I decided it was a good idea to rebuild the front brakes. I called my usual supplier and got rebuilt calipers, new flex hoses, and was presented with the option of either semi-metallic or OEM asbestos. The latter is NOS red/black box Unipart. I opted for asbestos, but am reconsidering.

I've never dealt with asbestos pads, but have heard a lot of folks complaining about how the current stuff just isn't as good for general driving as the old asbestos stuff. This has no pretext of being a performance car-I just want it to stop reliably and reasonably when needed(and it's soon getting new tires as the other important part of that equation). Although I didn't ask, presumably rear shoes I did a few months ago were also asbestos.

It's not too late for me to change my mind-given the choice would you all opt for an asbestos pad or a semi-metallic?
 
The reason the old people say that the car doesn't stop as well with the new tech pads is because their rotors are coated with the old material, which isn't really compatible. The only way to remove that coating is to sand or turn the friction surfaces.

Replace the rotors at the same time and you'll find modern pads (except for the cheap crap ones) do a *much* better job than those old crap asbestos ones. There is no good reason to use asbestos pads and plenty of health reasons not to.

Edit: Also, since this is a Marina, Internet regulations require me to post this picture.



da183f694e56556f585ea368254703d1.jpg
 
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I find it hard to believe that you can buy "asbestos anything" today.

Asbestos is extremely dangerous stuff. Read up on it if you don't believe me - cancer of the entire respiratory tract for a start.

We still have to deal with asbestos installed years ago but I wouldn't be caught dead (so to speak) installing new asbestos in anything.
 
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I find it hard to believe that you can buy "asbestos anything" today.

Asbestos is extremely dangerous stuff. Read up on it if you don't believe me - cancer of the entire respiratory tract for a start.

We still have to deal with asbestos installed years ago but I wouldn't be caught dead (so to speak) installing new asbestos in anything.


There's a lot of asbestos NOS British brake pads and shoes left in stock at various little vendors around the globe - you can unfortunately still buy them. I see it all the time in sale emails from vendors wanting me to buy parts for my classic old XJ6. There are sadly many idiots around the globe that want the things.

As you say, there's no good reason to buy asbestos friction material in the modern era. Ever. Many countries absolutely forbid the importation of asbestos without a special, per item permit and have no sense of humor about it - and they're right.
 
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I also find it hard to believe that any currently manufactured brake pad has genuine asbestos in it. Crazier things have happened, I guess, but still...
That being said, I used to work with the stuff a lot as a kid. My dad had rolls of genuine asbestos in his shop that I would have to use whenever he welded or brazed and he needed me to hold the stuff between what he was welding and what he didn't want to get burned up. I've probably also done hundreds of brake jobs on older cars that had asbestos material in both the material that I installed and took off. Remember, too, that all brake shoes used to have cores that went back to the factory to be reused. So all the deliver men and all the parts handlers who were taking old parts back to the factory potentially breathed the stuff also.
On a side note, I've got a '60 Ford panel van that is waiting for new brakes all the way around. I'm going to assume the shoes on it now are original. I'll also be super careful with this one. probably done quite away from my shop, wearing a mask and every precaution available will be taken.
 
Originally Posted by bunnspecial
I know this is probably a weird question to ask in nearly 2020, but it's something I was presented with today.

In my slow work toward getting the Marina roadworthy, I decided it was a good idea to rebuild the front brakes. I called my usual supplier and got rebuilt calipers, new flex hoses, and was presented with the option of either semi-metallic or OEM asbestos. The latter is NOS red/black box Unipart. I opted for asbestos, but am reconsidering.

I've never dealt with asbestos pads, but have heard a lot of folks complaining about how the current stuff just isn't as good for general driving as the old asbestos stuff. This has no pretext of being a performance car-I just want it to stop reliably and reasonably when needed(and it's soon getting new tires as the other important part of that equation). Although I didn't ask, presumably rear shoes I did a few months ago were also asbestos.

It's not too late for me to change my mind-given the choice would you all opt for an asbestos pad or a semi-metallic?
Part of me thinks that the originals are dangerous and cool but then 1. I doubt it will matter performance wise and 2. It's not something that is worth it (eg: going to concerts and standing infront of speakers is worth it for the hearing loss IMO).
 
If your rears are asbestos I'd want the front to match, so your performance stays the same, axle to axle, cold to warm.

When you go to service them, hit them with a garden hose, not the shop air hose. Everything in moderation.
 
Originally Posted by Kruse
I also find it hard to believe that any currently manufactured brake pad has genuine asbestos in it. Crazier things have happened, I guess, but still...


They aren't - as the original poster noted, it's New Old Stock pads. They've been sitting on shelves since probably the 70s or at most the 80s. Usually they're leftover from before Unipart got sold off.
 
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I too can't imagine being able to buy asbestos pads these days, there's laws against that sort of thing here. But if you can get them, go for it. They stop better with no noise. We never had brake problems until they had to find something not asbestos. Keep your windows up and drive at night when no one is on the streets.
 
Originally Posted by Kruse
On a side note, I've got a '60 Ford panel van that is waiting for new brakes all the way around. I'm going to assume the shoes on it now are original. I'll also be super careful with this one. probably done quite away from my shop, wearing a mask and every precaution available will be taken.

We can't do anything about past exposures (I too had industrial asbestos exposures when I was young) but at least we can minimize any future exposures.

If you suspect the brake pads on that van are asbestos, here are some practical suggestions: Don't use any compressed air. Keep everything wet. Wear a proper dust mask - meaning a half mask respirator with HEPA cartridges, while you're working on this job. Immediately bag the pads as you remove them, and tape the bags shut. Wear disposable coveralls and take them off and dispose of them as soon as you're done. And you're right, do the job outside and well away from the shop.

Keep that half mask respirator in a plastic bag and use it the next time you have a similar job. HEPA cartridges don't "spoil" when not in use.
 
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Do you suffer from mesothelioma ? You might be entitled to compensation !

If you're asking me, no I don't. Though the risk of that terrible disease often crosses my mind.

And yes I would make a claim for compensation. Being retired I wouldn't receive salary replacement, but compensation would pay for my medical care, and eventually my funeral. It's pretty certain that mesothelioma will kill you within 6 - 12 months (though we had one patient who was still alive 3 years after receiving radical treatment for mesothelioma, at which point he was killed in a motor vehicle crash).

Here's how I was exposed. I worked for a summer in a gas plant in Alberta. We had a contract insulator who was always covered in white dust. At coffee and lunch breaks he often talked about wanting to be an employee. But he was only offered full time contract work. Call me cynical, but I think our employer knew there was a problem with asbestos, even back in 1969.

I was asked to help that contractor for a few days. I was suspicious of those lengths of white pipe insulation. So I would only cut them outdoors, always stood upwind and held my breath whenever we were cutting them. But I have to assume I still got a lot of exposure to what was pretty certainly asbestos. So 50 years later there is a risk.
 
Whoa -

I admit I was caught watching "99 Luftballons" last week. Call me old school.

But there are people not using ceramic pads and fresh and/or coated rotors in the 21st century?

What is this "asbestos vs. semi-metallic" medieval heresy you still speak of?

Color me taken aback! (Prince joke)
 
Originally Posted by ecotourist
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Do you suffer from mesothelioma ? You might be entitled to compensation !

If you're asking me, no I don't. Though the risk of that terrible disease often crosses my mind.

And yes I would make a claim for compensation. Being retired I wouldn't receive salary replacement, but compensation would pay for my medical care, and eventually my funeral. It's pretty certain that mesothelioma will kill you within 6 - 12 months (though we had one patient who was still alive 3 years after receiving radical treatment for mesothelioma, at which point he was killed in a motor vehicle crash).

Here's how I was exposed. I worked for a summer in a gas plant in Alberta. We had a contract insulator who was always covered in white dust. At coffee and lunch breaks he often talked about wanting to be an employee. But he was only offered full time contract work. Call me cynical, but I think our employer knew there was a problem with asbestos, even back in 1969.

I was asked to help that contractor for a few days. I was suspicious of those lengths of white pipe insulation. So I would only cut them outdoors, always stood upwind and held my breath whenever we were cutting them. But I have to assume I still got a lot of exposure to what was pretty certainly asbestos. So 50 years later there is a risk.

It's a horrible disease, my buddies father died from it. I think there are a lot of people out there who were exposed to it and have no idea. I worked in an auto parts store in the 70's, they'd arc brake shoes, and the dust was everywhere in the shop and the store. Boxes were coated in it. Mechanics often blew out the brake drums exposing customers to it, houses contained it, not only pipe wraps and furnaces. Unfortunately brake pads and shoes might still contain asbestos. I prefer to avoid it whenever possible, but the truth is it is still in use, and you can't be sure unless you have the product tested. The odds of foreign made pads and shoes containing it is a possibility.
 
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