ARX w/ Restore

[z00mz00m]

-Please read

I want to do a second treatment of Auto-RX in my 1988 Acura Legend w/ 189k miles but I am regretting what will happen when I do so. I am currently running GC and have been since my first treatment (which wasn't 100% complete). Whenever I do this ARX treament w/ regular oil (I'll probably run Pennzoil 5w30) I know that my lifters will start ticking again. They were fairly quiet w/ GC, but I still had ticking at startup, it was quieter as well too. I added in Restore recently because its almost time to change my oil, and I wanted to see what would happen. Ticking at startup is now gone, but it ticks all of the time now very quietly (its nice).


Being a senior in high school, I need a cool car you know? I have that, but not when its ticking, therefore I can't do this treatment if it means that I'll have loud ticking lifters you know? I was wondering if it would be okay to run ARX and Restore at the same time, because I feel that it would almost eliminate the ticking while ARX does its thing.

Now you know my situation and reasoning, what do you recommend I do? If it is ok to run both of these additives, I plan on changing to Penn 5w30, adding in Restore until it kicks in, and then add in the ARX. I will do a sludge first treament application.

By the way, the oil in my car has been changed regularly since it was purchased, I was told this, although I only have records since 97 of the oil changes. The 2nd owner worked at the Acura dealership, so I feel confident he changed his oil

The sludge came from the PCV valve not being changed when required. I finally got it changed out a few months ago.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Now you know my situation and reasoning, what do you recommend I do?

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Shun the need for vanity in regard to ticking lifters. Your car will still look cool and anyone who doesn't think you're cool because of the lifter tick ..isn't worth dealing with. If "babes" are your concern ..I doubt that a ticking lifter or two is going to cut you out of the "rut season competition" unless you're already outclassed by bucks from more substantial herds ..in which case ..you've already lost the "fine" babe to someone with more $$$. Ticking lifters is not like genitel herpes. Do the complete A-Rx routine for a car over 100k and THEN select an oil that works well with your engine in its current state. You probably won't have any lifter tick to deal with after you're done.

Ditch the restore.

 

[z00mz00m]

I knew I'd get at least one of these replies. I'm not interested in picking up "babes" or whatever you think I am. I am just embarrassed when the ticking turns heads. Its unwanted attention and I get embarassed by it. I know its silly and I shouldn't care what others think, and I know that I'll grow out of it when I mature and get older, but for now I am not.

Will Restore hurt the ARX treatment or not? Answer me this.


Edit: If I can't use Restore.. what regular oil would quiet my lifters or eliminate the ticking while ARX gets the engine in tip-top shape?

[ October 31, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: z00mz00m ]

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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I knew I'd get at least one of these replies.

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Of course ..we're mostly old enough to be your father ..or older. You expected it. Just trying to save you a bunch of needless stress. I guess you can't realize it ..til your through it. We all tend to be doomed to learning most things the hard way. I don't think that you're anything but normal

I personally wouldn't use Restore under any circumstances other than some totally null and void engine that had been neglected ..or more correctly ..any engine problem that couldn't be coped with short of expensive repairs that the value of the car makes prohibitive.

Check your owner's manual and see what the viscosity recommendation is for your engine ..indexed for various temps. You don't hit any severe climate by most definitions so your options on oil weights is wide open. You may have to go heavier to quiet the lifters down ..but not necessarily. There are many posts here when one oil of the same weight resulted in lifter tick or start up noise over another ...in a perfectly good engine (almost new).

Do your lifters tick with a 10w-30? Rereading your original post ..it appears that changing the oil got rid of your lifter noise. What makes you think that it won't go away again ..or even come back again with the second application of Auto-Rx? The stuff you're describing is what frequently happens. Varnishes and sludge are removed at various rates ..sometimes they're maintaining pressure falsely ...you get a tick..later when the supply passage opens ..it goes away.

Beyond that ...how does this engine do on consumption and general performance??

...and ....

 

[z00mz00m]

Thank you very much

Nice reply.

Hopefully you can understand that I'm mature enough to understand that I'm just being a stupid teenager with my reasoning here, but I'm also stubborn like many teenagers and I want to stick with my instincts lol.

My ticking has never been completely gone. The ticking volume has been changed with different oils and situations, but never gone. With regular Pennzoil 5w30, it is near silent after warmed up though.

I messaged an oil veteran on Acura-Legend.com who led me here and to Auto-RX. I asked him which (regular dino) oil is commonly said to quiet lifters. It usually gets down to about 20F at the lowest here in NC, so I think I'm safe to use almost any oil viscosity. I'm also assuming that you can run pretty much any (regular) oil while doing the Auto-RX treatment right?

I feel what you're saying about Restore too, that's why I was wary about using it. I'm ready to get it out now as well. I just want my engine in the condition it should be to where I can run GC without any tick at all. Many other Legend owners have run GC without a lifter tick, and in many cases, it has eliminated the ticking all by itself.

My oil consumption is 0. The first treatment prepped the seals well enough that it doesn't leak at all, nor does my car burn any oil (not noticably at least). Performance is great, I have performed a lot of common overlooked maintanence on my car, and it is just in tip-top shape. I want to rid it of this ticking once and for all. Its a gem in my eyes, and I want the next owner to be as proud of it as I am. I can't have this ticking, lol.


Right now I'm thinking, maybe 10w-40 is for me. But which brand? Hopefully I'll be able to get back with you soon about what my colleague and friend recommends

Thanks Gary

 

[DJStillman]

Are we sure that oil is the problem here? What oil filter are you using? If you are using a FRAM, a Purolator, or a couple of other brands, then you are starving your engine of oil by reduced oil flow. Just because oil helped does not mean it is the real problem.

 

[Frank]

Restore will be removed by Auto-Rx so why even go there ? Auto-Rx will clean your lifters and a good oil will quiet them down.

SOMETHING ELSE YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IS YOUR ENGINE HAS LABORED LONG & HARD WITHOUT PROPER LUBRICATION THAT MEANS EXCESSIVE METAL WEAR. NO CHEMISTRY CAN REPAIR METAL WEAR HOWEVER AUTO-RX BY PREPPING THE METAL TO BE CLEAN ALLOWS ANY OIL TO NOW LUBRICATE THESE WEAR AREAS AND YOU DEFINITELY ALTER THE EFFECTS OF THE WEAR= THIS WOULD EQUATE TO EXTENDING "THE MEAN TIME FAILURE RATE" OF ANY OIL LUBRICATED ROTATING PART IN YOUR ENGINE.

 

[darkdan]

Why not park your car a block or two away from school?

I did so no one would hit it, scratch it, etc.

 

[z00mz00m]

It seems like we are drifting off subject a bit now. I'm positive the lifters are ticking, I've been on the Acura-Legend.com forums for a long time now. High Mileage oils have been used since 1997, Valvoline was the brand and I still had ticking for a while after it was changed. I want to save my engine, not postpone its demise.

I have hydrolic lifters as well. Intake are not adjustable but the exhaust are, and no I have not adjusted them nor do I plan to. Like I say also, I do not wish to use Restore any longer, I merely wanted to use it during the ARX treatment as a solution towards the lifter ticking.

How does a 10w-40 weight oil sound to you guys? It wont hinder Auto-RX's cleaning action will it? Also, what brand should I use if I go this route?

Also, I use a filter that is twice as large as the stock Legend filter. It is made for early generation Acura NSX's.

And no, I'm not going to park 2 blocks away. I want to show off my car lol. If I didn't, I wouldn't care about lifter ticking.

 

[z00mz00m]

Also, here is a reply I just received from my friend on the Legend Forums.

quote:

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try moving up to a 10w-30. No more than that though. Spend some time driving around for some good long distances. visit some folks you haveen't seen for a while.

At the rinse phase, keep an eye out for a Heavy Duty 10w-30 engine oil. generally used in commercial vehicles. theres lots in 15w-40 but that's too thick for the g1 in winter, 10w-30 HDEO is rarer but they're there. Ask around.

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[Gary Allan]

Here's your dimela, IMHO (if my "remote viewing" virtual sensory perception is in tune = requires Mars to be in the right position).

You've got two different valve noises. One is start up. Now let's define this specifically. Is this a very brief loud ticking that totally (for its volume/amplitude) goes away in a very few seconds (as in when the oil pressure comes up to spec)? ..or does it linger with ever decreasing volume over the warming of the oil and finally settle down to a tolerable level?? OR= it either makes the "startup" noise (or not) and then has varied subsequent ticking depending on the oil's viscosity??

One can be cured with the proper filter ..usually. The other is more complex depending on your answer. My Caravan will tick until the oil is thin ...unless I get my hands on 10w HDEO (the only available 10w-20 where the "20" is lower than the 5w-20's). Other wise it starts quiet. Some lazy lifter sludged cars with hydraulic lash aren't "noisy starters" per se' but the offending lifter is noisy until oil viscosity is lowered.

I'm getting hopelessly redundant here zOOm ..so I hope that you can extract what I'm trying to communicate.


That is, depending on those issues ..a heavier weight oil my cure one ailment ..while exacerbating another. You may have no warm idle ticking with something like an 40 weight oil ..but the startup/warmup clatter may be more than you like. OTOH, a 0w-30 or 0w-20 may solve the startup/warmup issues ..but leave your static idle oil pressure too low and amplify your "static clatter".

Old engines are like us old geezers. You can end up with "conflicting complications" that defy any one solution (visions of the conflicts between failing kidneys and a failing heart - one cure kills the other).

[ November 01, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by z00mz00m:
I want to save my engine, not postpone its demise.

Intake are not adjustable but the exhaust are, and no I have not adjusted them nor do I plan to.

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Which way do you want it. Perhaps some snake oil like restore can promise results without fixing the problem, but in the real world it doesn't happen. If the lifters make too much noise there is a problem, if you don't fix it how do expect it to go away?

If your car is the cool car you say it is, then what is the problem. If it's not, then do something about it. A lot of contradiction here.

-T

 

[Gary Allan]

Rereading your post (another affliction of the aged is that we "scan read" and latch on to the stuff that we think we see)

You've got warmup noise. This points to varnished lifters and their related passages. The 5w-30 you used is heavy enough to yield enough idle oil pressure to keep them quiet when warm.

I would recommend doing the Auto-Rx treatment with a 5w-30 of choice and running it all the way through and endure all the resultant noises that you will hear during the cleaning and rinse phases. I would then get a proper synthetic that will yield you acceptable lifter noise at hot idle. This may very well be a 0w-40 like is available from Mobil. GC is alleged upper stratosphere of the 30weight realm ..so it may do the job. This will give you the best startup flow ..yet with enough hot viscosity to suit your needs when at warm idle.

You may have to face the fact that you can't have it all ways in this situation (refer to "geezer" reference).

 

[z00mz00m]

I've heard that adjusting the exhaust valves will not solve my lifter ticking, it will only help slightly. This is a very very common issue on the Legend forums and I have read up on it well. I've been researching and discussing this stuff since I got my car.

The ticking with Penn5w-30 was a very loud startup clatter that persisted until the temperature of the oil was up pretty high. It was silent at intial startup where RPMs are on up there though. After warmup you could hear ticking, but it was very slight.

GC yielded lower volumes of ticking at startup, while increasing the volume of the warmed up lifter ticking slightly.

My engine runs great, its very smooth. It is contradicting to say that I have this annoying lifter ticking, but that has been known to occur on the Legend's C27A engines even around 70k at times. It's just something that is unavoidable. I have stated that I do not want to run Restore, I do not like it being in my engine. I only wanted to experiment with it because it has been said that Restore will help/cure ticking lifters in our engines. Many different things have been tried before on the Legend engines.

I remember one person say that a racing oil he had silenced the lifters, many use Mobil1, and a few use GC. I want to complete this cleaning with minimum ticking over the duration, and then go back to GC because my engine is very quiet with it, and acceleration is much smoother than with regular oil.


Edit: My first treatment of Auto-RX got about 75% complete before my oil block seal went downhill and I lost some oil, which the mechanics replaced. I had been running 5w30 penn then and I had been tolerating the lifter noise, but that was last year. I think I may have to do the same, but I might step up to 10w30 Pennzoil if that sounds alright to you guys. Who makes the best easily available regular oil right now?

 

[DJStillman]

Havoline or Chevron Supreme. And you still havent said, what brand filter are you using, and are you sure that it is 100% feature compatible with your car?

 

[farang]

quote:

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Originally posted by darkdan:
Why not park your car a block or two away from school?

I did so no one would hit it, scratch it, etc.

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Because it won't be "cool", "I have car, you don't!" "I don't want to walk!"

Read his post again "Being a senior in high school, I need a cool car you know?"

If someone can walk, take buses to school from K to 11, one more year would be too much!

 

[z00mz00m]

The filter is twice the size of the normal ones, it comes from the acura dealership. i bought it off of a friend in california who has a father that runs a honda/acura specialty auto shop. I'm sure its better for performance, thats why I didn't feel the need to be this specific

again, this is stuff i know from the acura-legend forums.

 

[michaelc80]

If you use Auto RX follow the directions exactly. Don't add anything else to it. Much of the cleaning takes place in the rinse phases, so be prepared to deal with it for a few thousand miles more.

Auto RX, when used according to the directions, WILL work (assuming that all you need is a good cleaning and not mechanical work). But you have to follow the directions and have patience with it.

 

[z00mz00m]

quote:

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Originally posted by michaelc80:
If you use Auto RX follow the directions exactly. Don't add anything else to it. Much of the cleaning takes place in the rinse phases, so be prepared to deal with it for a few thousand miles more.

Auto RX, when used according to the directions, WILL work (assuming that all you need is a good cleaning and not mechanical work). But you have to follow the directions and have patience with it.

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Yep Yep, I'm all prepared to do that now.

Basically its just a standard treatment now, but I have yet to make a 100% definite decision on which brand of 10w-30 I plan to use...

 

[MolaKule]

Why not use a quality High Mileage or Long-Life 10W30, since your engine has close to 190,000 miles on it.

Are we completly sure it's lifter tick and not some other loose component like a timing chain. Does your engine use shims with a bucket lifter or are the lifters hydraulic?

I agree with others, ditch the Restore, use ARX and a High-Mileage oil.