Armed Forces Question....

[Tim]

Jelly

I am happy you saw Outrun's outburst (hey, that's almost poetic) for what it was. He evidently has had a run-in with Marines. Usually leaves an impression on the other guy

Trust me, the Marine thing is not propaganda, it is real. It is pounded into our heads (and our bodies) to make sure it is real. Sure, there are always a few who slip through. But by and large, you won't find a more serious group of fighting men and women. Be confident, but not a jerk.


BTW, I was an enlisted grunt, '76-'80. The question about officers vs enlisted...rank, respect etc has been dealt with. But let me tell you - in the Marines, no enlisted man calls an officer anything but "Sir" in public (unless things have changed in the last 24 years). Even our Division Sergeant Major called our Company XO (a second lt.) Sir. That's 30 years and a chest full of fruit salad from Vietnam calling a 24-year old kid Sir! Marines are taught to respect rank. If you earn your bars as a Marine, you will be treated like an Officer of Marines!


Tim

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

>>>Yes that is probably true, but hey after 20+ years of flying you shouldn't have worry about working much anyway

Well, the retirement isn't really bad, but it is about 1/3 the active pay. At 20, a lot of folks have kids in highschool or about to go into college, and that can be a real drain on the pocketbook.

Most of the commercial pilots I have known got their start in service, and then left well before getting 20 year in. I know one who did not go into service--and he did reasonably well.
Neighbor's kid went to a college in FL where he learned to fly. He has been banging around for years now, flying traffic reporters, Grand Canyon tours, bank checks, etc,-- building hours and hoping to get into a major (or even minor) airline position. In the meantime, his pay is probably less than that of a 1st LT. And with all the layoffs and furloughs, not much chance of hooking on with an airline at this time.

I certainly won't knock the service--had I kept track, I stayed in for 20 years, 1 month and 3 days. By that time, all the Christmas help (reserve officers) was let go, because we had declared ourselves winners in RVN and came home. I enjoyed some of the jobs I had, some of the places I was assigned, some of the folks I worked for. When I walked away, I didn't really miss it much. Still have a number of friends we stay in touch with over the past 25 years.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by **** in Falls Church:
Most of the commercial pilots I have known got their start in service, and then left well before getting 20 year in. I know one who did not go into service--and he did reasonably well.
Neighbor's kid went to a college in FL where he learned to fly. He has been banging around for years now, flying traffic reporters, Grand Canyon tours, bank checks, etc,-- building hours and hoping to get into a major (or even minor) airline position.

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A couple of friends have sons that went to an aeunautical universities then got on with regional airlines. I was shocked to hear how little they start out at. It's a case of a lot of talented people chasing to few jobs.

About 7 years ago one of the started as a co-pilot at well less than $1,500/month with one of Continentals feeder airlines. He did well and has since moved onto Continental and looks like he will have a good career. But, for everyone like him there are lots of qualified pilots still working for peanuts.

 

[Drew99GT]

**** Jelly, you and I have a lot in common!

If your interested in Flying, and thats ALL you want to do in the military, I'd see of you can scrounge up some dough and get your private license right away. During that time, you may either love aviation, or hate it! I wanted to be a military pilot all my life (and even had a stint at the US Naval Academy), but when I got really involved in trying to get my private license, I realized that this may not be the best thing for me. When I also had another eye exam at the Naval Academy, my eyes were MUCH worse than when I was accepted to go there, so I was not pilot qualified anymore, lost interest, and dropped out from discouragement. I always though flying was going to be easier than driving a car. WOW, was I wrong! It is indeed fairly difficult, and during my training, I found, can be dangerous. For starters, I witnessed a home built aircraft suffer an engine failure at my local airport (uncontrolled single strip) and go directly into the powerlines at the end of the runway; killed the pilot instantly. When your young and impresionable, it's kind of scary. Second, flying in CO can be intteresting, shall I say. One training flight, we got caught in a bad snowstorm, couldn't see the ground at all, not cleared or even prepared for IFR. Luckily, my instructor spotted the ground near the airport and instantly knew where we were, and we landed with so much ice in the wings, we were both kissing the ground. I've since restored my interest in flying, and about to get my private ( all I have left is a few checkrides with FAA certifier).

My point is, go flying first BEFORE you commit to something, and do not make the mistakes I made.

One other fabulous track you could take is this (which I wanted to do, but couldn't because of poor vision): go to an aeronautical school (Embry Riddle and University of North Dakota are the BEST) and pursue a degree in auronotical science (pilot's degree

). While doing that, enlist in the Air National Guard and do something like a jet engine mechanic, tghen, when you graduate, get commisioned in the Guard and go to pilot training that way. Then, you'll have flying time out the wazoo (pilot in command/turbine time) AND you'll be able to pursue a career in commercial aviation. You'll have great leads from school and theflight time from the Guard. I knew a guy who did this, and h e is HOOKED UP now.

Also, the biggest rule of thumb with commercial aviation (which my instructor pounded into my head religiously): do not throw your eggs in one basket, mainly, aviation. There are gobs more pilots at any time looking for a commercial aviation gig, then there are positions available. Also, think of things like if you lose your FAA medical. Bingo, your instantly out of work. Also, think 9/11; look what that did for commercial aviation.

 

[tom slick]

quote:

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I don’t understand this at all...how does someone just have a bachelors degree, take a class (program, or whatever you call it), and become, for example, a Marine with higher rank and pay than say a master gunney sergeant that’s been in the corps for g-d knows how long.

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it is generally the same as the civillian world. officers are generally "management" (white collar), management always gets paid more than the people they manage (blue collar). why is it in the civillian world a college grad makes more than a non college grad of the same age?
here in another practical reason. let's say you get your degree in enginneering, you can get a safe civillian job offering for $40k a year, or you could put you your life on the line in the trenches for $25k and food stamps. there would be no choice. now if the military was to offer you something comperable you could concider a military carreer. they have ot offer something to attract some of the brightest.
also they don't just give you a commission for having a degree, they'll beat you up first and make sure you are the right material.
the military is a great option, i've been in for 10 years working on aircraft engines. 4 active USAF and 6 CA air national guard.

 

[Jelly]

The number one thing that will "kill" me career wise is getting burned out. I absolutely cannot sit in an office or work in a building.

Honestly, I've been around the trucking industry all my life, and driving a truck would probably be the best thing for me. I'm not gonna drive a truck for many reasons though.

I've always been attracted to flying planes though as well. I love 'em!

Probably tomorrow, I'm gonna go talk to the Air Force ROTC and get the specifics on everything.

The reason why I'm drawn to the Air Force more than any of the others is simply because of the planes you are able to fly. I want to eventually end up flying large commercial or cargo jets, and I figure becoming a glorified truck driver...I mean airlift pilot in the Air Force, flying such planes as the C-17, 141, 5, and 130 will give me the best experience and possibility of landing a job with a major carrier. Maybe I'm wrong though??

One thing I'm wondering about...what are the vision requirements? I'm nearsighted (don't know how much though...been years since I had an eye exam). Can you have laser surgery like you always see on TV?

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:
Can you have laser surgery like you always see on TV?

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Nope, at least when I was trying to become a military pilot. Laser correction automatically disqualifies you. Eye standards vary by the demand for new pilots. In general, you need to be about 20/70 uncorrected I believe (there are specifics, like 20/80 in one eye, 20/40 in the other etc.), BUT, you have to be correctable to 20/20, which I am not unfortunately. AND, my uncorrected vision in my gimpy left eye suddenly shot up to about 20/110 after I entered the Naval Academy, so that was the end of that for me

 

[Drew99GT]

Ah, I also forgot about that, hehehe, I found out I am partialy colorblind AFTER making it to the Academy. Before recieving an appointment there, I passed the DOD eye exam with the colorvision test they give. I later failed it BAD!

 

[Drew99GT]

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/pilotvision.htm

I was right, 20/70 uncorrected in general.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by Drew99GT:
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/pilotvision.htm

I was right, 20/70 uncorrected in general.

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So, currently, you cannot have laser surgery in the Air Force, but you can in the Navy or Marines?

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by Drew99GT:
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/pilotvision.htm

I was right, 20/70 uncorrected in general.

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So, currently, you cannot have laser surgery in the Air Force, but you can in the Navy or Marines?

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Only if your accepted into that study they mention.

 

[Last_Z]

Seems the topic has been well covered, so I'm just gonna recap.

-The best service to be in is, without a doubt, the Air Force. You can ask any Army, Navy or Marine guys and they'll tell you the same. Some might tell you we are sissies, but that might be jelousy.

-After you attain a BS and enter OTS, you don't just take a "walk in the park" and put on 2Lt. Competition is somewhat tough and only 65-70% get comissioned. Military life is somewhat a shock to most civilians entering a service.....a lot of getting used to.

-As Curtis Newton stated....as a 2Lt you'll be as useful as an Airman basic or a Private.....in other words, you don't know $h!t......so you would just move out of the way and observe. Most people believe General's like Powell and Franks are geniuses and have the answers to everything. They are indeed very smart guys.....but the fact is, there are thousands of enlisted people making "it" happen. Officers are "made or broken" by the enlisted.

-I'm not trying to scare you, but just in case you've been outside the solar system lately; things are HOT! A few friends from my shop just got shelled 2 days after arriving in Iraq. Depending on your career and branch of service, there might be a good chance for deployment, so think about it carefully, especially if you have a wife and kids.

-Officers make very good money and as you stated, some baby 2Lt makes almost as much as a TSgt (E-5) with 10 years in the service. As time prgresses, you will see bigger paycheks. Here is the pay table for officers, warrant officers and enlisted.

With that said, it is a very rewarding career. You get to travel all over the world, meet different people and experience different cultures. You also get an enormous amount of training at no expense to you. Very worth while in my opinion.

Rick

 

[Jelly]

Yes...I am fully aware and understand the chances of being deployed and going off to war.

Kinda off topic, but one thing I have to do is go get a vision test and see where I stand.

 

[sprintman]

And as an USAF pilot you get the chance to get an exchange post to Australia and join an RAAF squadron. What could be better than that?

 

[msparks]

Jelly,

Just from the way you talk it sound like any type of military service would be good for you. Just pick a field that isn' behind a desk.

There are many Army careers that you would be out doing stuff. Don't just limit yourself to becomming a pilot.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by msparks:
Jelly,

Just from the way you talk it sound like any type of military service would be good for you. Just pick a field that isn' behind a desk.

There are many Army careers that you would be out doing stuff. Don't just limit yourself to becomming a pilot.

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Mike...thing is I want to eventually become either a commercial or cargo pilot, and, at least at this point, I figure the best way to go about this is by flying airlift "heavies" in the AF.

I understand that there are many very interesting Army careers out there, but I don't believe there are any that would prepare me for a civilian pilot job as well as being a pilot in the Air Force.

 

[Drew99GT]

You do not HAVE to join the military to become a commercial pilot! According to my instructor, perhaps over 50 % of commercial pilots now have no military experience. Granted, commercial aviation was better before 9/11, but you can still make it civilian. IMO, one of the hottest aviation careers is corporate aviation, and it is by far easier to get the proper credentials for that through a school like Embry Riddle. If you become a flight instructor there, you'll be past 1,000 hours in no time at all and will quickly be picked up by a company like FlexJet or something. My instructor is/was a Chyropractor, but was a flight instructor for around 2 years after recieveing his private. He simply worked his butt off, and now is a pilot with Ratheyon, flying mostly Citations and Gulfstreams. That would be the best career in aviation IMO, but yopur constantly on call and never know when or where you will be going; part of the allure IMO!

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
-The best service to be in is, without a doubt, the Air Force. You can ask any Army, Navy or Marine guys and they'll tell you the same. Some might tell you we are sissies, but that might be jelousy.

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Uhhh...I don't know about that.

Tell you one thing I don't like about the Air Force in comparison to the Marines: The physical fitness standards you are held to in the Marines (I'm speaking generally here) is head and shoulders above what the Air Force requires.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
-The best service to be in is, without a doubt, the Air Force. You can ask any Army, Navy or Marine guys and they'll tell you the same. Some might tell you we are sissies, but that might be jelousy.

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Uhhh...I don't know about that.

Tell you one thing I don't like about the Air Force in comparison to the Marines: The physical fitness standards you are held to in the Marines (I'm speaking generally here) is head and shoulders above what the Air Force requires.

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Mental fitness is another story altogether

 

[tom slick]

quote:

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Tell you one thing I don't like about the Air Force in comparison to the Marines: The physical fitness standards you are held to in the Marines (I'm speaking generally here) is head and shoulders above what the Air Force requires.

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that just changed this year with the "fit to fight" policy. the air force is now requiring much more rigorous physical conditioning.