Snow socks surprisingly effective but full chains and winter tires excelled.
Are winter tires "worth it"?
- Thread starter Ws6
- Start date
Totally worth it.
I've had seperately-mounted snows for my last 10 vehicles; turboed 94 Miata, couple Audi 4000qs, Talon, Subaru, Carrera4, Subie wagon, 05 CRV, 11 RDX....
This past summer I replaced the RDX with a low mileage Passport AWD. It was expensive, and I no longer drive for work, so I thought I'd try the stock all seasons through the winter to conserve cash if possible. One snowfall was enough to convince me this was false economy. Honda's current torque-vectoring AWD is really good, so much of the performance deficit was masked.
Until I tried to use the brakes. It was shocking how long the abs took to bring the vehicle to a stop. Terrible, really.
That same day I ordered a set of 235/17 Michelin X- ice from Tire Rack; they were happy to help me find smaller rims and narrower tires (stock are 265/20) and I had them in a couple days.
Obviously, the difference is graphic.
Snow tires are *totally* worth it.
I've had seperately-mounted snows for my last 10 vehicles; turboed 94 Miata, couple Audi 4000qs, Talon, Subaru, Carrera4, Subie wagon, 05 CRV, 11 RDX....
This past summer I replaced the RDX with a low mileage Passport AWD. It was expensive, and I no longer drive for work, so I thought I'd try the stock all seasons through the winter to conserve cash if possible. One snowfall was enough to convince me this was false economy. Honda's current torque-vectoring AWD is really good, so much of the performance deficit was masked.
Until I tried to use the brakes. It was shocking how long the abs took to bring the vehicle to a stop. Terrible, really.
That same day I ordered a set of 235/17 Michelin X- ice from Tire Rack; they were happy to help me find smaller rims and narrower tires (stock are 265/20) and I had them in a couple days.
Obviously, the difference is graphic.
Snow tires are *totally* worth it.
Have had my Nokian Nordman North 9(studded) now for 2 weeks on my A4 Quattro and no I dont even think about the snow anymore. Can pin it in second and the car just goes and brake without even the ABS going in.
Biggest worry is the car behind not having good tires.
Also here it is illegal to not have snow tires. 200 bucks in fines per wheel otherwise.
Biggest worry is the car behind not having good tires.
Also here it is illegal to not have snow tires. 200 bucks in fines per wheel otherwise.
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Anecdote.
Today we put the winter tires on my son’s Gen 3 4Runner. He backed down the hill to get into the garage - and the rear wheels spun (2WD move). 3 season tires are BF Goodrich Trail Terrain, and Goodrich claims they are as good or better as other AT tires.
After we put the winter tires on (Nokian R3 SUV) had him back down the same spot and try again. No wheel spin at all.
The hill isn’t particularly steep, but has a little crusty snow and ice.
Today we put the winter tires on my son’s Gen 3 4Runner. He backed down the hill to get into the garage - and the rear wheels spun (2WD move). 3 season tires are BF Goodrich Trail Terrain, and Goodrich claims they are as good or better as other AT tires.
After we put the winter tires on (Nokian R3 SUV) had him back down the same spot and try again. No wheel spin at all.
The hill isn’t particularly steep, but has a little crusty snow and ice.
if my tires would show any struggle going up that, I would actually never drive with them anymore. I think summer tires would be better than whatever your son had on.
Googled the tires and they are considred summer tires here so i understand why they struggled.
They have the 3PMS certification as winter tires here, “Severe Snow Rated.”
https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/auto/tires/trail-terrain-t-a
But temp was 19° F (-7°C) and icy. Keep in mind that in the front of every “Conga Line” in a snow storm is some dude white knuckling it while telling his wife “I don’t need snow tires because ‘I know how to drive in snow’”.
The 3PMS certification test is one simple test that tire manufacturers have figured out how to pass with new SUV and pickup tires, which have deep treads when new. But their compounds are much harder (the BFG has a 60,000 mile treadwear warranty) and tread design is a compromise between on-road/ soft-road/ ice and snow features. They do a great job rest-of-year.
There are few jurisdictions in North America mandating winter tires or chains, and only on certain roads and conditions. The Canadian province of Quebec mandates them from December 1 to March 15 for vehicles registered there.
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@Strumpan_ these old test results may interest you. This is the only test we found comparing two different widths of the same tire: a Nokian in 205 and 225. Probably dates back to 2009.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
The biggest problem with Trail Terrain is not snow, it is wet surface. They are absolutely abysmal!
I have on Honda Advantage Sport T/A (all BFG SUV tires have same issue regardless are they T/A Sport or KO2) with 3PMSF, and in snow they are, let’s say, acceptable for some occasional use (we don’t use that car, except when family in town). But rain? Holy moly what disaster that is.
Ranger83,
Where did you get that? I'd like to get a copy of that report for my records.
Don’t recall. It was from a Swedish magazine more than 10 years ago. Surely you can download the image. Wound up trying 205’s on my WRX in lieu of stock 225’s and they were much twitchier on dry roads.
The Norwegian Auto Federation (NAF) used to be the first to test winter tires every season, so I would go looking for those. This was from 2021. Caveat: the models sold in Scandinavia may not be available here, nor would the test results be the same. They test studded and friction tires.
The German auto club ADAC tests winter tires but the brands and models tested may not be available here.
https://www-motor-no.translate.goog...auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui
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Did this get missed?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I think the correct point is that the choice of tire brand is more important (though, based on my experience and experience of some members here, I am not so sure Hankook winter tires would be my choice).
But, two points that tests miss and are pretty much only subjective:
1. Deeper snow: Let's say 4" of snow on the road (quite often here on back roads when avoiding massacre on I70 going to ski), narrow tires just slice through it better.
2. More importantly, changing lanes during snow-covered roads or if lanes are cleaned but between lanes plows and other cars still leave snow, and you want to pass someone, especially those that "don't need snow tires because I just don't go out during snow," narrower tires slice easier through it and transfer less "jolt" to the steering wheel. In those situations, they provide more stability. My wife is here as a test subject, and she never drove on snow tires, nor did she know they existed (and she is from Chicago) until she met me. And for her, changing lanes, going through that patch of snow between lanes, is an absolutely horrifying experience. With narrow snows, she never had issues. And trust me, if she had, I would hear it
I run narrower tires on BMW and VW in the winter. On BMW, I run 205/50 R17, compared to 225/40R18, and on Tiguan 215/65 R16 compared to 235/50R18. On Sequoia, I kept the same width because of weight. But Sequoia is as dynamic as Queen Mary, so not so much into changing direction fast, etc. and options were not so good for narrower tires.
I had Michelin Defenders on a 2WD Tacoma. Weight in the bed and don’t drive like a **** got me through snow and ice. Granted I’m in North Texas. My Tundra is 4x4 but when the factory crappy tires are done I’ll get Defenders.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
How does that work when there is an accident in front or a kid, and you have to brake?
The point of winter tires is not going forward but stopping and handling! If you need to stop while driving 30mph with winter tires, they might "buy" you 20-30ft of stopping distance in packed, slick snow or ice compared to Defenders, for example (which are exceptional tires for what they are made for).
this is what people seem to forget, winters tires are for safety not getting away. Stopping and actually turning is much more important than getting away. This is something awd owners think awd helps with too for some reason.
Best is having real winter tires and awd. Nokian studded or equivalent.
Does north Texas even get snow?
Defenders are considered summer tires here so idk how they would help with winter conditions.
This is why I have snow tires on all our cars.
On Saturday driving south on I-91 Greenfield Mass had clear skies, a few scattered clouds.
10 miles south in Hadley There was a significant snow squall. Plenty of cars off the road. 25-30 mph.
10 miles further south in Holyoke the sky was clear.
On Saturday driving south on I-91 Greenfield Mass had clear skies, a few scattered clouds.
10 miles south in Hadley There was a significant snow squall. Plenty of cars off the road. 25-30 mph.
10 miles further south in Holyoke the sky was clear.
This is my experience too. The most confidence inspiring cars I've had in deeper snow and slush have also had the skinniest tires.I think the correct point is that the choice of tire brand is more important (though, based on my experience and experience of some members here, I am not so sure Hankook winter tires would be my choice).
But, two points that tests miss and are pretty much only subjective:
1. Deeper snow: Let's say 4" of snow on the road (quite often here on back roads when avoiding massacre on I70 going to ski), narrow tires just slice through it better.
2. More importantly, changing lanes during snow-covered roads or if lanes are cleaned but between lanes plows and other cars still leave snow, and you want to pass someone, especially those that "don't need snow tires because I just don't go out during snow," narrower tires slice easier through it and transfer less "jolt" to the steering wheel. In those situations, they provide more stability. My wife is here as a test subject, and she never drove on snow tires, nor did she know they existed (and she is from Chicago) until she met me. And for her, changing lanes, going through that patch of snow between lanes, is an absolutely horrifying experience. With narrow snows, she never had issues. And trust me, if she had, I would hear it
I run narrower tires on BMW and VW in the winter. On BMW, I run 205/50 R17, compared to 225/40R18, and on Tiguan 215/65 R16 compared to 235/50R18. On Sequoia, I kept the same width because of weight. But Sequoia is as dynamic as Queen Mary, so not so much into changing direction fast, etc. and options were not so good for narrower tires.
We do on occasion. Mostly ice. Never broke traction on the defenders.
First of all I don’t drive like an idiot when it comes to bad weather. I try my best to avoid panic situations and don’t lock up the brakes. It’s worked for me the last 18 years I’ve lived here.
