Are winter tires "worth it"?

[Sequoiasoon]

I mean, we did discuss it numerous times. Like everything else in this topic. But, each winter we just need to repeat topic bcs. there is always someone.

And we LIKE discussing it while shaking our heads for those that don't understand.

My sister had a '90 Mustang GT 5MT. First flurry when it was a month old with the Goodyear Eagle Gatorbacks she spun around starting from a light and put it right between a brick wall and telephone pole missing both. She came home shaken up and said we need to do something. Aye, Aye captain. 4x one size narrower, studded Riken snows (what they had at our shop to fit), no Gislaved/Nokian available.

That thing was a beast in snow. Up hills, down hills, people said you'll never make it. She put in 2nd gear and rolled on up. If issues a tap of gas spun them to clear, fishtail and rock on.

Mom had a Grand Marquis set up the same on 4 studded snows.

 

[edyvw]

I'm just the opposite, If I absolutely have to be somewhere, I'm taking my dually every time. Now saying that, if I'm just running into Woodland Park, I'm taking the Civic, no matter how hard it's snowing and blowing. Studded snows on everything I own.

I went through numerous blizzards going to or back from Breckenridge/Keystone/A-Basin on 24.
BMW is a bit limited in terms of clearance, but AWD is an absolute beast in the snow. Of all the vehicles I had so far, this one is by far the best when it comes to moving, turning, etc. Simply, it can change direction super fast, get back to a straight line super fast, etc. The control in snow/ice etc. is excellent. It is permanent AWD, 40/60%, with the possibility to move 50/50% or 0/100%.
Tiguan has clearance and a short wheelbase; it is quick on its feet. During bombgenesis it transported some 40 people to homes when they had to leave their vehicles, plus pulled out lifted JEEP bcs. well, the JEEP thing, the axle broke.
Sequoia? No doubt 4X4 and clearance play a role, but so far, I have not seen a storm where I must have that to get somewhere. Now, if bombogenesis hit today and I had to go pick up people around the neighborhood, then yes, I would take Sequoia over Tiguan.

 

[Ws6]

Wow. This thread. It had some legs on it!

That said, I just ordered four WS90's for my Mom's car. 2005 LeSabre. It does have a locking front diff as best I can tell. I will see how a leading snow tire does vs my AWD EV6 GT on CC2's this winter. The main thing driving this was the fact that I do live in the mountains, and I agree that AWD doesn't much affect brakes. Glare ice coming down some of those can be scary. Snow has always been invisible to me, traction-wise (my GT will cut a sub-3 second 60' time in fresh snow, lol!), but ice is another story. Based on TireRack's testing, it looks like the WS90 is capable of significant (25% or so) reduction in stopping distance on ice vs the CC2, so I presume that means higher CoF is available descending icy slopes.

 

[Ws6]

To be fair, Hankook is trash.

 

[Ws6]

I would never even consider using a no-season tire in the winter. I actually run three sets of tires on my daily driver. A summer set, a performance winter set as my intermediates in the spring/fall, and then a very aggressive studded Nokian for the real winter driving.

I don’t have the luxury of staying home when the weather turns to ****, I am expected to be at work, on time, regardless if there is freezing rain, snow or whiteout conditions.

And yes, the studded winters are worth every penny. The car (x-drive BMW) is unstoppable regardless of what’s on the ground. Even glare ice is like dry pavement.

My CC2's were amazing on my AWD vehicle last winter. That said, I will be testing WS90's on a FWD vehicle this winter.

 

[Ws6]

If you get a real winter/see snow of course. Otherwise here's some Michelin PSAS4s in the rare snow we had a few years back with slow-motion launch control hahaha

I ran PSAS4's one winter. They were shockingly good.

 

[Ws6]

Not exactly, but that’s why the MSP calls pickups and SUV’s “ditchfinders.”

I see that every year on my commute. Mostly pickups. Probably because pickups are horrific for weight distribution and people in my area are, on average, low income and just run whatever worn out AT tire they have on it because that's the best they can afford to do, and we still gotta work.

 

[Ws6]

One factor I don't see discussed here is temperature. Snow tires use rubber compounds formulated for sub-zero temperatures to keep the tread pliable. I also live in Colorado and wait until the seasonal temps drop before mounting my snows. While all-season tires work OK, there's nothing like snow tires (currently on Michelin X-Ice on my Nissan Versa HB) on all four sides when the roads get slick.

I have had no issues down to -10 to -20F on proper all weather tires, even UHP's, with traction, unless ice was involved, and still the vehicles functioned well. The worst is actually right at the 32F mark where a tiny bit of pressure on the ice melts the surface of it. THAT is slick as snot.

 

[Rmay635703]

And I’m the guy that has 2 snow tires and 2 nokian “4 season” tires because the snows were on clearance for $20.

2x snows is better than none helping with braking and keeping the car straight

Sadly the act of mounting a tire these days is egregious so it’s not worth doing unless you also have a cheap pair of steelies or mount your own to the rim.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

And I’m the guy that has 2 snow tires and 2 nokian “4 season” tires because the snows were on clearance for $20.

2x snows is better than none helping with braking and keeping the car straight

Sadly the act of mounting a tire these days is egregious so it’s not worth doing unless you also have a cheap pair of steelies or mount your own to the rim.

I had 2 on a Honda Civic on the front because it is FWD. The problem is that they have better traction than the others and you "FEEL" it will be better, and they are, THEN you take a bit of weight off the back or take a nice turn and the front grips and rear doesn't. It's a not so fun experience when you 360 in front of a semi coming at you. That happened to me. 3 days later I had the other 2 matching snows for the rear.

Same reason now that dealers will only install new tires of any version on the rear if there is more than like 4/32" difference for rain etc.

Depending what model Nokian and how old they are, they may (or may not) be better in winter than the clearance winter tires you got again depending on brand/model/age.

 

[Ranger83]

And I’m the guy that has 2 snow tires and 2 nokian “4 season” tires because the snows were on clearance for $20.

2x snows is better than none helping with braking and keeping the car straight

Sadly the act of mounting a tire these days is egregious so it’s not worth doing unless you also have a cheap pair of steelies or mount your own to the rim.

YMMV.

When I first got Conti Contacts, one branch of the tire dealer had two and the other branch had two. So had two put on the front and drive over to the other dealer location - in an ice storm.

Most terrifying drive of my life. Car was trying to swap ends the whole trip. Pre ABS and ASC so maybe modern cars make up for it.

To be fair, ///

 

[Ws6]

YMMV.

When I first got Conti Contacts, one branch of the tire dealer had two and the other branch had two. So had two put on the front and drive over to the other dealer location - in an ice storm.

Most terrifying drive of my life. Car was trying to swap ends the whole trip. Pre ABS and ASC so maybe modern cars make up for it.

I've tested them. They're a long way behind the competition. They just don't have the compound.

 

[Ranger83]

I've tested them. They're a long way behind the competition. They just don't have the compound.

There are literally hundreds of A/S vs A/W vs W tire tests, drop the red herring and take your pick.

 

[krzyss]

And I’m the guy that has 2 snow tires and 2 nokian “4 season” tires because the snows were on clearance for $20.

2x snows is better than none helping with braking and keeping the car straight

Sadly the act of mounting a tire these days is egregious so it’s not worth doing unless you also have a cheap pair of steelies or mount your own to the rim.

How do you keep 'the car straight' with 2 winter tires?
Any videos?

Krzyś

 

[Rmay635703]

How do you keep 'the car straight' with 2 winter tires?
Any videos?

Krzyś

Step on the gas or hit the brakes , going on 7 decades of 2 winter tires in this family

 

[4WD]

Step on the gas or hit the brakes , going on 7 decades of 2 winter tires in this family

If you look at modern front biased AWD systems - many apply much less torque to the rear - and with braking and steering mostly in the front - that system would be enhanced by only 2 tires …
Not as good as 4 - but better still …

 

[IndyIan]

How do you keep 'the car straight' with 2 winter tires?
Any videos?

Krzyś

My mom did it for years with her fwd 1985 Corolla, and when I turned 16 it was the funnest winter car I've ever driven. A little hint of a scandinavian flick, and add some left foot braking, and it was so controllable to drift sideways around city street corners. There was a subdivision under construction nearby with no one living in it and at night when we had enough snow, I'd go do a couple dozen laps around it. It was an automatic but you could select 2nd and feed in the power to straight up a bit or lift a little to get the back end out more and tighten the line.
I guess that's what a miata light vehicle on skinny 13" tires could do and the all season tires on the back had kind of square shoulder so they would dig in with a big drift angle.
I guess back then, the snow tires maybe weren't that much better than the all-seasons either? It sure worked anyways.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

My mom did it for years with her fwd 1985 Corolla, and when I turned 16 it was the funnest winter car I've ever driven. A little hint of a scandinavian flick, and add some left foot braking, and it was so controllable to drift sideways around city street corners. There was a subdivision under construction nearby with no one living in it and at night when we had enough snow, I'd go do a couple dozen laps around it. It was an automatic but you could select 2nd and feed in the power to straight up a bit or lift a little to get the back end out more and tighten the line.
I guess that's what a miata light vehicle on skinny 13" tires could do and the all season tires on the back had kind of square shoulder so they would dig in with a big drift angle.
I guess back then, the snow tires maybe weren't that much better than the all-seasons either? It sure worked anyways.

And that is/was fun accordingly when you want to play. My kids (and I) go to parking lots now still when it snow to play some and refresh test the limits with room to correct.

When it's not fun is driving on the highway or 2 lane and needing to stop, swerve or other when your family is with you.

 

[bullwinkle]

How do you keep 'the car straight' with 2 winter tires?
Any videos?

Krzyś

I had studs on the front of my old '90 Civic wagon & all seasons on the back-front would dig in & throw snow, ice, even chunks of asphalt on turns-back would come around under any slippery conditions at all. A dangerous handful to drive, 4 all seasons would have been better.

 

[bullwinkle]

And we LIKE discussing it while shaking our heads for those that don't understand.

My sister had a '90 Mustang GT 5MT. First flurry when it was a month old with the Goodyear Eagle Gatorbacks she spun around starting from a light and put it right between a brick wall and telephone pole missing both. She came home shaken up and said we need to do something. Aye, Aye captain. 4x one size narrower, studded Riken snows (what they had at our shop to fit), no Gislaved/Nokian available.

That thing was a beast in snow. Up hills, down hills, people said you'll never make it. She put in 2nd gear and rolled on up. If issues a tap of gas spun them to clear, fishtail and rock on.

Mom had a Grand Marquis set up the same on 4 studded snows.

My Grand Marquis has GY TripleTreds on it, 3PMSF rated-it is surprisingly good in snow (& of course the directional Aquatred style tread launches rain & slush all over the place). Have never really tried it in an ice storm, we surprisingly haven't had a bad one here for ~10 years or so. Weather so far this winter makes me think we might see a bad one or two, though.