Are winter tires "worth it"?
- Thread starter Ws6
- Start date
If all you’re worried about is the 27* incline on your driveway, lay out 3/4” PEX in a continuous pattern like a heating element would be, then have a local contractor pour you a 3” thick topper over the PEX. Fill the loop with straight propylene glycol. Connect it to a micro boiler and either have a manual switch to turn it on, or set a temperature sensor in the concrete to turn the boiler on when the concrete goes below 35* and off over 40*. If you don’t want a micro boiler, technically you could do a couple solar hot water collector panels but then you’ve got to keep those clean if you want heat in the driveway. Never have to shovel or worry about making it up your driveway again!
I had snows on my Odyssey, and snows on my 93 Mustang. They didn’t really make a huge difference in turning, but they did transform the car’s ability to go. Stopping was better but nowhere near as stark a difference as acceleration. Never had snows on any Subie, because if you “need” snows on your Subie, you probably shouldn’t be driving in the winter anyways
I had snows on my Odyssey, and snows on my 93 Mustang. They didn’t really make a huge difference in turning, but they did transform the car’s ability to go. Stopping was better but nowhere near as stark a difference as acceleration. Never had snows on any Subie, because if you “need” snows on your Subie, you probably shouldn’t be driving in the winter anyways
A Subaru doesn’t stop faster than any other car in the winter. Real nice to not drive over a family of 4 due to wrong tiresIf all you’re worried about is the 27* incline on your driveway, lay out 3/4” PEX in a continuous pattern like a heating element would be, then have a local contractor pour you a 3” thick topper over the PEX. Fill the loop with straight propylene glycol. Connect it to a micro boiler and either have a manual switch to turn it on, or set a temperature sensor in the concrete to turn the boiler on when the concrete goes below 35* and off over 40*. If you don’t want a micro boiler, technically you could do a couple solar hot water collector panels but then you’ve got to keep those clean if you want heat in the driveway. Never have to shovel or worry about making it up your driveway again!
I had snows on my Odyssey, and snows on my 93 Mustang. They didn’t really make a huge difference in turning, but they did transform the car’s ability to go. Stopping was better but nowhere near as stark a difference as acceleration. Never had snows on any Subie, because if you “need” snows on your Subie, you probably shouldn’t be driving in the winter anyways
What are you talking about? Maybe read the rest of my post. Snow tires don’t prevent idiocy in any form of winter driving: not acceleration, not turning, nor stopping.
My point was, since you didn’t get it, was if you can’t drive successfully under those unbending rules of physics I just reiterated, slapping winter tires on an AWD isn’t going to make you any safer. Cheers
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
So, what you saying is that people who drive 30mph and kid runs out in front of them drive like an idiots? And they don’t avoid panic situations and they lock up brakes?
Yeah, that is not how that works.
But then, since CO is playground for people from TX during Christmas and New Year holidays, it kind of explains massacres on I70 when it snows.
My daughter called me yesterday saying "thanks dad". Nothing was really forecasted for her area but mother nature doesn't care so much what we predict. She was leaving class and the road leading uphill from lot was closed, multiple accidents, cars sliding everywhere and now blocking. Her 2 friends waved her down as they couldn't even get out of their parking spots. She stopped and said it's not that bad and picked them up. She went down the hill to side road and up a larger hill in her '08 CRV. Her friends were bewildered. She told them because my dad loves me and worries about me.
She did say that the fronts spun a bit going up the hill but knew that was needed to get the rear to activate also on the "real time AWD" which has pumps in rear diff to put pressure on clutch packs. She said no issue going down hill but did go slow and used low gear. Her CRV has 4x VikingContact 7's on it.
She did say that the fronts spun a bit going up the hill but knew that was needed to get the rear to activate also on the "real time AWD" which has pumps in rear diff to put pressure on clutch packs. She said no issue going down hill but did go slow and used low gear. Her CRV has 4x VikingContact 7's on it.
That should only be around $40K at current concrete prices. I'll get right on that.If all you’re worried about is the 27* incline on your driveway, lay out 3/4” PEX in a continuous pattern like a heating element would be, then have a local contractor pour you a 3” thick topper over the PEX. Fill the loop with straight propylene glycol. Connect it to a micro boiler and either have a manual switch to turn it on, or set a temperature sensor in the concrete to turn the boiler on when the concrete goes below 35* and off over 40*. If you don’t want a micro boiler, technically you could do a couple solar hot water collector panels but then you’ve got to keep those clean if you want heat in the driveway. Never have to shovel or worry about making it up your driveway again!
I had snows on my Odyssey, and snows on my 93 Mustang. They didn’t really make a huge difference in turning, but they did transform the car’s ability to go. Stopping was better but nowhere near as stark a difference as acceleration. Never had snows on any Subie, because if you “need” snows on your Subie, you probably shouldn’t be driving in the winter anyways
Well, we got a little snow here, and not enough yet for me to say, but so far on ice/slush it didn't feel any better than my CC2's. Both provoked the ABS similarly. We have more snow inbound later this week, so maybe then we will see.
Once you have at least a good all weather tire or a very good all season tire you will never go back to a regular tire if you drive on ice and snow. I always run studded tires on my daughters cars in the winter when they attended high school and college. People wonder how some of these people drive faster on ice. 1 of 10 of them are idiots, the other 9 people have tires that are good on ice.
That’s a good Dad, right there. I put Viking Contact 7s on the SUV my daughter drives. I want every advantage for her safety. Just like you do for your daughter.
We got snow for the first time in 3 years here in the Richmond, VA area and looks like there is more in store this weekend. A few inches at most with some icy/slushy/wet/snowy mess on the roads Monday was about all we saw where I am. The UHP all seasons got me to Publix for my grocery run unscathed as they have for the last 36 years of driving in mid-Atlantic winters. No snow donuts unfortunately...not enough to really do that in the usual parking lots I frequent for that activity. Son has new Conti DWS06+ on his S3, worked great as well with reasonable driving (slow down/don't follow to close/understand you need to give yourself more room to stop) to get him to work Monday. Glad I had swapped out other son's summers for his all seasons when he was home for Thanksgiving from college.
Compared to my CC2's, longitudinal traction (accel/decel) is very similar. Probably matters more what "type of snow" you're on than what tire you're on. Lateral (turning), I give maybe a 5-15% advantage to the WS90's. Snow tires are only worth it if you have a FWD vehicle like this one and are clawing for every ounce of advantage you can get. Otherwise, CC2's on AWD are more capable.
On ice, I'd give the WS90's a 5-10% advantage.
Long story short, WS90's on a FWD strike me as a good move as I want every ounce of advantage. On my AWD cars? Waste of money. CC2's are 90% the tire, and AWD more than makes up the difference. PSAS4's are 85-90% the tire CC2's are in snow and ice, in my experience, as long as the tread is 6/32+.
*This is based on subjective driving feel in the Ozark mountains, I left my tape measure at home.
The internet is full of crap about CC2's and modern all weather tires "not being good enough", is my take from this little experiment.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Snow tires are, first and foremost, about stopping!
The difference in testing by Tire Rack between WS90 and CC2 is 18ft on ice and 10ft in snow.
The acceleration to 12mph, WS90 are only 4ft faster.
The difference in stopping between CC2 and Pilot4 AS in the snow is only 2ft, and ice is 2.7ft!
The aggressive CC2 design means good forward traction, but again, many AS tires have good forward traction, or AT tires.
This is the first year we aren’t running winter tires on the 2012 Altima.
Brand new set in the basement and after driving yesterday, they will be installed.
Brand new set in the basement and after driving yesterday, they will be installed.
Meh. Judging by braking, which is all 4 of course, it wouldn't do a ton.
Believable.
No way any car without awd is going up that with or without snows. So I parked at the top, but my neighborhood and commute still has some very steep inclines.
I’ve made it up very steep, icy, winding roads, (I used to live on one), with a 2WD and snows, while AWD without snows used to crash on that road with regularity.
Put the real snows on, give it a try, report back.
The reality of true winter tire performance, and what you imagine, is very different.
