I think this mainly and really not seen "performance" CVTs.
Are there any high performance models with CVT's?
- Thread starter sloinker
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You are correct.
Renault introduced an F1 car with a CVT back in the 90s. I think after Ferrari saw their practice lap times they petitioned to get it banned and to change the rules, which of course happened and the CVT car never raced.
But racing and mass produced vehicles, even marketed as “performance” are two totally different things that are worlds apart.
I'm an outlier for my age/generation when it comes to transmissions. I actually like CVTs. Yeah some are terrible and fail (just experienced that), but they're also smooth.
What is interesting to me is a common compliant I always hear about is how automatics shift erratically, jerk or buck etc. Very common complaint and always has been to this day. CVT's come along and are a smooth as you can get and people hate them.
I like manuals too, but it also depends on the manual. Some are terrible some are not.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/williams-fw15c-cvt.379771/
What is interesting to me is a common compliant I always hear about is how automatics shift erratically, jerk or buck etc. Very common complaint and always has been to this day. CVT's come along and are a smooth as you can get and people hate them.
I like manuals too, but it also depends on the manual. Some are terrible some are not.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/williams-fw15c-cvt.379771/
As I have stated, the CVT in our CRV is a real marvel. Best automatic transmission in a smallish vehicle I have driven. It's pretty seamless with a TINY overpowered 1.5L turbo.
Neat thread. So far no just uneducated swipes at the CVT concept, design and follow through. I mean even the WRX example, is that really a "built" CVT? (I am asking, don't know)
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"High Performance CVT" is an oxymoron.
Go on. Why? Detail it out.
I think it’s the combination of the CVT and the engine.
I had a CVt Malibu as a rental recently with a 1.6t engine and I liked how that CVT operated.
I think when they are paired to an engine with a lot of low end torque, that doesn’t need to be revved up to get going, that’s where they operate the best from a driver experience POV.
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Here's a quick rundown for you on why CVTs aren't usually seen in the high-performance applications:
- Feel: CVTs are super smooth, which is great for cruising but very dull for sports driving. There's no kick or gear shift surge that you get with traditional transmissions, which is a big part of the fun in performance cars. Yes, it tries to emulate shift points, but that makes things even worse, because now you have a delay in every gear shift, in addition to all the other problems that a CVT brings with it.
- Toughness: High-performance cars need a transmission that can handle intense stress and heat from powerful engines. CVTs are more about efficiency and smoothness, so they're not really built for that hardcore use. When's the last time you saw one bolted on to something like a Hellcat engine?
- Driver Control: In a performance car, being able to manually shift gears quickly is key for speed and handling. CVTs are all about automatic ease, which means less direct control for those split-second, high-speed decisions. Emulated shift points don't work here, because you add even more delay.
- Torque Handling: Powerful engines pump out a lot of torque (you know, the force that gets your car moving). CVTs, especially the older ones, can struggle with really high torque levels, making them less ideal for performance beasts.
Really those are two points articulated into four points, but they are good points.Here's a quick rundown for you on why CVTs aren't usually seen in the high-performance applications:
So, while CVTs are awesome for a light vehicle and saving on gas, they're not the right choice for high performance vehicles. They're awesome in a commuter Honda Civic, but when's the last time you saw one in a pickup truck or high performance sports car? Just my two cents!
- Feel: CVTs are super smooth, which is great for cruising but very dull for sports driving. There's no kick or gear shift surge that you get with traditional transmissions, which is a big part of the fun in performance cars. Yes, it tries to emulate shift points, but that makes things even worse, because now you have a delay in every gear shift, in addition to all the other problems that a CVT brings with it.
- Toughness: High-performance cars need a transmission that can handle intense stress and heat from powerful engines. CVTs are more about efficiency and smoothness, so they're not really built for that hardcore use. When's the last time you saw one bolted on to something like a Hellcat engine?
- Driver Control: In a performance car, being able to manually shift gears quickly is key for speed and handling. CVTs are all about automatic ease, which means less direct control for those split-second, high-speed decisions. Emulated shift points don't work here, because you add even more delay.
- Torque Handling: Powerful engines pump out a lot of torque (you know, the force that gets your car moving). CVTs, especially the older ones, can struggle with really high torque levels, making them less ideal for performance beasts.
I mean maybe a tough CVT could be designed, but why? It might be heavy (so what's the point?) and you give up the feel.
Again, thanks for not just being all about "I hate CVTs because they all fail"
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They don't fail (well, ultimately everything wears out, no matter what), if you maintain them. Every time I see a beat up Nissan Altima I shrug, thinking that "never mind that poor CVT, when was the last time that car had its oil topped off - I'm not even gonna wonder about the OCI."Again, thanks for not just being all about "I hate CVTs because they all fail"
And if you use above average fluids like AMSOIL, HPL, or Red Line, and changing them on schedule, then you can rest assured your driveline will last for a long time.
The truth is in the stopwatch. Performance wise the CVT is a shadow of other types of transmission in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. This doesn't mean they couldn't be programmed or modified to be as good or better. I have limited this discussion to high performance vehicles but if you open the criteria to entry level vehicles there are issues. The vehicles I have driven just annoy me. Maybe if I had never driven anything else or was just oblivious to the CVT's driving dynamics I wouldn't have brought it up. I have only driven a handful of vehicles with CVT's. Mostly entry level rentals. Never would I buy one at this consumer level. It is possible if I wanted to spend more money and move into a pricier vehicle the opinion would shift. Time will tell. It does seem the bugs have been worked out and the longevity is now there. I was recently a passenger in a brand new Subaru, I wasn't impressed as a passenger and didn't have the heart to belittle the car to the proud new owner who loves it. He asked what I thought and I said it's a great car! You did well! We shall see in 5-6 years when the engine may need replacing how he felt about his ownership experience. Not sure of the longevity of the CVT for these vehicles but this guy uses the dealer for his maintenance, the first few years free I think, but he isn't a car guy.
ls1mike
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Nothing, but you could be faster? Righter? I made that word just for you.
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My coworker has a 2015 Maxima. I don’t know how many miles off the top of my head. Maybe 130K? He’s changed the fluid at least once. No issues. Well the fuel pump died but other than that, the car has been good to him. I expect his CVT to last a long time because most of his driving is on the highway, he drives gently, and he services it at a reasonable interval.
Now, my boyfriend drives a Nissan Kicks. That one, I don’t have much hope for a long life and I’m hoping he trades it in at 100K. Currently at 35K or so. I’m trying to convince him to have the CVT fluid done at the dealer. So far he hasn’t bothered. Oh well, it’s not my car! I do change the oil and filters but I’m not going to touch the transmission myself. But I do believe 30K mile CVT service intervals are key to longevity.
ls1mike
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I have had a bunch of rentals with CVTs and didn't really find them bad at all. Two that come to mind were a Maxima and Malibu. Both seemed nice to me.
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Someday, once I get farther ahead in life... although, contrary to what anyone else says, you can quite easily bend the limit in a Toyota (it just takes longer to get there).
And in my defense, name a car that is more camouflaged than a beige Toyota.
ls1mike
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That is regular traffic, not one LEO is looking twice at you.
A buddy of mine had a 2013 Maxima that had 185k on it before he hit a deer and totaled it. It would put you back in the seat pretty nicely and he never had any issues with the CVT. He did change the CVT fluid religiously at 30k intervals which I'm sure helped.
I wonder if it comes down to size/pressures/materials and the dynamics of cooling contact parts when used in super-high torque applications. How large are the pulleys - 6? Maybe that’s fine for 150-200 ft-lbs, but let’s say we are talking 300-400 ft-lbs of torque. Heavier belt, larger pulleys, starts to eat into space constraints? Probably very awkward fitting for a RWD application.
In the case of Toyota and Ford’s eCVT, I wonder how many amps those coils and controllers are pushing and modulating continuously to “hold the gearing together.”
In the case of Toyota and Ford’s eCVT, I wonder how many amps those coils and controllers are pushing and modulating continuously to “hold the gearing together.”
My sis in laws 2017 Nissan Rogue 7 passenger with 190k shifts poorly . They normally run vehicles into 250k+ range without transmission ailments.
