Are rebuilding engines a thing of the past?

[ls1mike]

I really think it depends on the engine.
I have done some 2.2/2.5 Mopar stuff.
a 2.8 and 3.1 GM

I wouldn't even bother with SBC or SBF. Just to many options out there with warranty.
Same if I had to replace one of my LS motors.

We have 4 local Machine shops that do really good work.

 

[AZjeff]

O/T, sorry, how is that PPV doing Mike?

 

[01rangerxl]

I don't think it's really a thing of the past so much as the market for this kind of work is changing. Cars used to just plain wear out engines much more often, but they were simpler to build, so it wasn't unusual for a daily driver car to have its original engine rebuilt by a general repair shop. Now engines tend to last longer, but complexity has gone up. Usually turn around time is very important for a run of the mill, everyday car (not a numbers matching classic), so it makes sense to just swap out a whole assembly that is covered by a warranty and rebuilt in a standardized process vs. trying to build a complex engine quickly in a regular repair shop and hopefully not have any problems with it.

The shop at work has built a couple engines over the past year or so, but I mean literally a couple. Maybe two, compared to somewhere around 20 complete reman engine swaps and a few used engines.

We do commonly send out cylinder heads to be rebuilt. The two shops we use offer full rebuilding services for engines, but they aren't general repair shops, they specialize in machining/building. Those types of businesses are definitely still out there, but it's a more complex and specialized skill set than it used to be, so you're not as likely to see the corner garage doing it anymore. The engine machining/building shops that can keep up with the increasing complexity stay in business and stay busy.

 

[tenderloin]

One of my work 05 Explorers 4.0 SOHC V6 dropped a valve at 185,000 mi Surprised as my others are strong with a few at 300,000. Anyway I had it rebuilt. I did not specify Ford parts and the shop used aftermarket chain guides/ tensioners which were noisy /rattled at start up. He replaced them with Ford parts (except Land Rover oil pump) and all is well with just under 40,000 on the rebuild. Still as quiet or quieter as new. Price was about the same as a used engine with warranty.

 

[crazyoildude]

My family had an engine shop for as long as i can remember until i sold it recently and it was and still is a booming business.. We were always busy but we did great work and the new owner is doing the same.. Factory crate engines can also be hit and miss.
There are more engine shop out there than you think a lot of them are hidden and totally unmarked for some reason.. I know of a few that are in an industrial park all the way in the back and they are busy also.
There are some problems with some engines such as some cant be bored out because the cylinders are too close to each other.

 

[DemoFly]

Cheaper, easier, no risk and a warranty.

 

[Silk]

The engine rebuilding shop in town closed last year, closest city only has 2 left. Rebuilding an engine isn't done in NZ anymore, for everyday cars anyway, classic stuff yes. We don't even do head gasket jobs, less labour costs to just swap an engine. The age of the NZ fleet is old, but most are JDI's, and a huge turnover, they could be junk in just a couple of years. We have parts companies in Japan with Kiwi workers dismantling cars and sending containers of engines, gearboxes, half and quarter cuts back to NZ. So cheap it's a no brainer.

Trucks, motorcycles, equipment, yes we still rebuild those.

 

[eljefino]

I've done a few ring jobs in Saturns, but wouldn't consider it a rebuild as I didn't measure or machine anything. Yet I did strip it down to the block.

Research clued me in to the known problem and known fix. Went in and swapped the typically worn parts. My assumptions were correct.

If someone blows a timing chain or head gasket and gets a junkyard head put on, does that count as a rebuild or a repair?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
My family had an engine shop for as long as i can remember until i sold it recently and it was and still is a booming business.. We were always busy but we did great work and the new owner is doing the same.. Factory crate engines can also be hit and miss.
There are more engine shop out there than you think a lot of them are hidden and totally unmarked for some reason.. I know of a few that are in an industrial park all the way in the back and they are busy also.
There are some problems with some engines such as some cant be bored out because the cylinders are too close to each other.


My friend's shop is off the beaten path, with a sign you need binoculars to see. He has more work than he can handle, and now the marine engines are starting to pour in again. There'll always be work for a good machinist, however fewer and fewer people are entering the trade because of the more complex engine designs, and longer warranties. The bottom line is the trade is not as appealing as it was 50 years ago. That might also be driving prices up since finding a good machinist is getting harder and harder.

It's good to have him around. We had him install a ring gear on a 351 Ford Marine engine this past spring. It was a lot cheaper than replacing the flywheel. He also beat the best price we are able to find on the ring gear.

 

[Silverado12]

My son is a machinist, but he does industrial work, not automotive. I have to run to Richmond to find a machine shop.

 

[crazyoildude]

Demo, No Risk and a warranty and cheaper?? At an engine shop what risk is there? When you buy one somewhere else who is doing the rebuild? Can you meet that person?

We have warranties and if something goes wrong we pull the engine if you buy one somewhere else and something goes wrong who knows what can happen and you have to remove it and do it all over again.

Also Whats in that engine they did elsewhere at a machine shop you can see the parts they use. We were cheaper than some of these crate engine places most of the time anyway.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Kool1
I've noticed less automotive machine shops over the past 20 years. I would say that more automotive machine shops are closing than opening.


Absolutely. It's very sad, IMO.

It's a bit worrisome, but engines are simply lasting longer. Back in the 1950s, piston rings were advertised on the radio, thanks to the regular need for replacement. Now, 95% of the population doesn't know what piston rings are.

Here, there still are the shops that have been the mainstays over the years and are known to do good work and have flexibility in the projects they take. There certainly aren't a bunch of smaller ones like there used to be.

 

[Kestas]

A long time ago AAA did a study and found that one third of rebuilt engines needed to be re-rebuilt because of a serious fault during rebuilding.

 

[funflyer]

Just did a rebuild of a 258 Jeep engine last month. No shortage of machine shops out in small town Arizona.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
A long time ago AAA did a study and found that one third of rebuilt engines needed to be re-rebuilt because of a serious fault during rebuilding.

Sounds a lot like what the RX-8 community is dealing with. Rebuilt engines are known for quality issues.

 

[Robenstein]

In some cases, it is probably better to buy a crate engine from a reputable company for the average joe/jill. However, in some cases, if you want something odd for a hotrod like an old Ford Y block, Chevy "w" motor, Ford FE, etc....you are still going to have to find a builder or do it yourself.

I have always done it myself personally...I have trust issues .

 

[crazyoildude]

Well i always had a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty and if they wanted they could buy 3 yrs for a fee from a private insurance company that was country wide... And they were real they paid us for a couple of engines from another company that went out of business and two of our own engines that were close to 3 years old one was due to overheating and the other was a bad chain.

 

[artificialist]

Usually I see an engine replaced with a low mileage junkyard engine. If an engine blows head gaskets, the heads do get rebuilt.

Anyway, the reason I see few engine rebuilds is because when an engine reaches that age, practically everything else on the car is failing, or has failed already. Who do you expect to spend thousands of dollars on a car that also has numerous electrical glitches, no cold A/C, several suspension parts that are worn, and most pieces of the interior are falling off?

Whenever I read about an engine getting rebuilt, it is usually some kind of heavy equipment, a commercial truck, or a boat. When I do read about a car engine being rebuilt, it is almost always
1. A car loved by many enthusiasts
2. An engine that was abused in some way, making the engine fail long before everything else on the car has failed. Lack of oil changes, overheating, and not replacing the timing belt when it needs to be replaced.
3. An oil change not done properly by a repair shop or quick lube.

 

[Amirkhat]

Interesting, rebuilding engine no doubtable requires lots of highly refined machine work. I think the cost of this machine works has gone up considerably throughout the years because of automation. With automation there are are fewer folk that can do this type of work and therefore change the cost structure and the economic viability of rebuilds.

 

[bunnspecial]

Engine rebuilds are still common among British sports car folks, as the engines aren't being made anymore.

I've been back and forth on an MGA here locally that has the engine in pieces. The machining on the block and head has been done, but is old enough that they will both at least need a dip. If I buy it, I'm going to have to get a crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods(along with the other staples like the camshaft and main bearings). There are tempting-and plentiful-engine swaps available for it that are more or less drop in. The 1800 5-main engine from the MGB and a lot of other not-so-common-in-America cars is one such engine, but I want the original 1500cc 3-main engine. These aren't so plentiful.

At the same time, not too long ago my local MG mechanic had a lady bring in her daily driver '77 B a few months back with a blown head gasket. After pulling the head, he found enough issues that(after talking to the owner) he ended up just dropping in an engine he had sitting on the shelf. It was faster, cheaper, and easier than fixing the head on the old one. I've said something to him about buying the one he pulled to do something fun with it(probably skim the head, have it ported and polished, put higher compression pistons in, a mild street cam, and then find a nice roller to put it in).

On the other hand, if I needed an engine for my daily driver Lincoln, I'd be on the phone with every pick-and-pull in a 200 mile radius(I probably wouldn't have to go that far). Chances are, that would be cheaper than even doing a head gasket. Fortunately, it's not a particularly troublesome engine and has been looked after well in my care. It's about to roll over 150K, and has no signs of showing down.