Are Hybrids really hard on oil?

[joekingcorvette]

The ICE in my Accord does seem to heat up about as quickly as what I've seen in non-hybrid cars, judging by the point at which the car produces useful heat output for the cabin, which depends entirely upon ICE coolant for heating.
The Accord does have an exhaust to coolant heat exchanger which probably helps in speeding warmup.

Yes I know the Maverick has some kind of exhaust or something that makes it heat up faster. When I compare the cold auto starts between my old 2012 Honda Civic and the Ford Maverick in the parking lot at work there is a world of difference. The Maverick in very cold weather would be nice and warm and the Civic would have to be driven to obtain the same higher temperature from the heater. The Maverick is so much better when using the auto start to retain that heat. I think the Rav4 hybrid does the same thing however I don't drive it to work and we don't have the auto start enabled on it because it's $10 or so a month and my wife works from home. We are not paying the fee on the Rav 4 because we don't need it.

 

[bdc101]

The ICE in my Accord does seem to heat up about as quickly as what I've seen in non-hybrid cars, judging by the point at which the car produces useful heat output for the cabin, which depends entirely upon ICE coolant for heating.
The Accord does have an exhaust to coolant heat exchanger which probably helps in speeding warmup.

Toyota hybrids have the same heat exchangers after like 2014 or 2015, something like that. Like you said, the idea is to heat up coolant as quickly as possible because the engine computer wants the engine to be warm, firstly so the cabin has heat, and secondly so that the engine gets up to operating temperature. You will notice that the engine probably runs all the time until the heat blows warm from the HVAC.

Can someone that owns a hybrid explain this to me - because I am considering a well used hybrid next. I though the battery in a hybrid is essentially acting as a capacitor - and for example if I were to take a 20 mile drive likely the engine would be running 90% of the time. Am I wrong?

The battery acts as a battery, but yes if by "acting as a capacitor" you mean it is just acting as an energy storage device, you are correct. But a battery and a capacitor are both energy storage devices. The battery in a hybrid always just stores energy from regenerative braking and then releases it when the car is accelerating again (using stored electricity to propel the car instead of gasoline).

If you take a 20-mile drive the engine might or might not be running 90% of the time; it depends on the type of driving you're doing. The engine typically turns off when decelerating or going down hills or sitting at stop lights. But this totally depends on WHICH hybrid you are looking at.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The battery acts as a battery, but yes if by "acting as a capacitor" you mean it is just acting as an energy storage device, you are correct. But a battery and a capacitor are both energy storage devices. The battery in a hybrid always just stores energy from regenerative braking and then releases it when the car is accelerating again (using stored electricity to propel the car instead of gasoline).

From an application / functionality stand point in a circuit a capacitor provides a rapid boost in current when needed, and accumulates a charge when it can. I figured this might be an apt description of the battery in a hybrid. Perhaps its not. Either way I am keenly aware of the technical difference in the two so I won't use that analogy anymore.

 

[bdc101]

Thought I'd take you up on this so I watched this one.
While the presenter is earnest and in no way offensive or wannabe hip, the presentation was light on technical details and in some ways technically inaccurate. Examples include that you don't need to get to 212F oil temp to evaporate water from the oil as claimed in the video and frequent references to ZDDP with none to moly.
Overall, more of an extended ad for the hybrid flavor of Mobil 1 than something full of useful insights for hybrid owners.
Finally, if there is a downside to the stop/start nature of hybrids it has nothing to do with the oil but rather the possibility of frequent heating and cooling cycles causing head gasket failure, something this video does not touch on.

You are affirming my choice never to try to learn anything from Youtube unless it's a video of a lecturer at a university, or a video of someone physically taking apart a car to show how it's done. I feel like this is a great example of why our society seems to be getting dumber and dumber.

 

[fdcg27]

You are affirming my choice never to try to learn anything from Youtube unless it's a video of a lecturer at a university, or a video of someone physically taking apart a car to show how it's done. I feel like this is a great example of why our society seems to be getting dumber and dumber.

The best use of Youtube is to find just about any song you've ever heard often with an entertaining video.

 

[ATex7239]

A lot of hybrids are known to dilute. Doesn’t matter if the engine runs less in a hybrid. The oil is still contaminated with fuel. So yes they are hard on the oil.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The oil temps might be cooler, but the engine gets used a lot less too. I'm skeptical. Was there any actual data in the video, like a test of the oil finding that it was worn out faster or full of water? I didn't listen to the whole thing. It sounds unlikely.

Their hybrid oil keeps water in suspension rather than letting it settle out.

 

[bdc101]

Their hybrid oil keeps water in suspension rather than letting it settle out.

We already covered earlier in this thread how hybrids bring the engine up to temperature as soon as it is started. They don't turn the engine off until the car is warm. I don't think "settle out" is the term you meant to use, either

 

[thickvthin]

I got the rav4 hybrid based on the long-life of prius which has been around for a while. I considered both engine and transmission life expectency.

 

[GenSan]

I have a 2024 Rav4 PHEV and just for kicks after driving for 2 hours on the highway yesterday I opened the hood and put my hand on top of the radiator cap and it actually felt cool. Temperature was 65F and speed limit was 70mph on the highway. In short the hybrid engine prefers to stay cool and that is a concern for oil emulsification and fuel dilution for sure. I check my oil in subzero temps and I see a few mayo spots on dipstick every now and then but nothing under the oil fill cap. There was a Toyota TSB for this and their remedy was just do an early oil and filter change. Heavy mayo buildup under the oil fill cap was a tell tale sign.

 

[bdc101]

I have a 2024 Rav4 PHEV and just for kicks after driving for 2 hours on the highway yesterday I opened the hood and put my hand on top of the radiator cap and it actually felt cool. Temperature was 65F and speed limit was 70mph on the highway. In short the hybrid engine prefers to stay cool and that is a concern for oil emulsification and fuel dilution for sure. I check my oil in subzero temps and I see a few mayo spots on dipstick every now and then but nothing under the oil fill cap. There was a Toyota TSB for this and their remedy was just do an early oil and filter change. Heavy mayo buildup under the oil fill cap was a tell tale sign.

I've never owned a Rav4 hybrid, but keep in mind that the thermostat will not send any coolant to the radiator if the temperature is not high enough. The thermostat exists to keep heat inside the engine until it's warmed up, and then when it opens it will allow coolant to travel to the radiator to shed heat. There is a band of temperature where the engine is warmed up, but the radiator does not get any coolant. If you drive your normal car around on a very cold day you can find (especially with more efficient cars) if you bring it into the garage that the radiator may be cold. The cold ambient air is just enough to keep the coolant below the temperature where the thermostat opens. I can't imagine how a 2 hour drive at 70mph could possible not be enough to warm up the car.

Again, I think the reliability track record of the Toyota hybrids more than speaks for itself. They're some of the most reliable cars ever made, without an exception that I can think of. The original youtuber is just trying to make up a story to get views which is probably his income.

 

[thickvthin]

I have a 2024 Rav4 PHEV and just for kicks after driving for 2 hours on the highway yesterday I opened the hood and put my hand on top of the radiator cap and it actually felt cool. Temperature was 65F and speed limit was 70mph on the highway. In short the hybrid engine prefers to stay cool and that is a concern for oil emulsification and fuel dilution for sure. I check my oil in subzero temps and I see a few mayo spots on dipstick every now and then but nothing under the oil fill cap. There was a Toyota TSB for this and their remedy was just do an early oil and filter change. Heavy mayo buildup under the oil fill cap was a tell tale sign.

The engine is not on as much as it for the non-plug in hybrid on the highway. My 2019 non-plug in hybrid rav4 gets hot after 2 hours. I wonder if you get way better than 38 to 40 hwy mpg.

 

[GenSan]

The engine is not on as much as it for the non-plug in hybrid on the highway. My 2019 non-plug in hybrid rav4 gets hot after 2 hours. I wonder if you get way better than 38 to 40 hwy mpg.

I drive mine like it's a Supra so the ICE is almost always on whenever I get on the highway. I can get MPGs in the 100s as long long as I have EV miles left. EV can run up to 86MPH without using ICE.

 

[thickvthin]

I drive mine like it's a Supra so the ICE is almost always on whenever I get on the highway. I can get MPGs in the 100s as long long as I have EV miles left. EV can run up to 86MPH without using ICE.

Cool. Sounds like a nicer ride than the non-plugin version I have lol.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

We already covered earlier in this thread how hybrids bring the engine up to temperature as soon as it is started. They don't turn the engine off until the car is warm. I don't think "settle out" is the term you meant to use, either

Actually it'll separate and collect at the bottom of the oil pan. So goes the claim

 

[thickvthin]

We already covered earlier in this thread how hybrids bring the engine up to temperature as soon as it is started. They don't turn the engine off until the car is warm. I don't think "settle out" is the term you meant to use, either

that is not the case with my 2019 hybrid rav4. the engine turns off regardless of wether the coolant is 70f or 130f or 200f.

 

[UGASpike]

that is not the case with my 2019 hybrid rav4. the engine turns off regardless of wether the coolant is 70f or 130f or 200f.

+1 here

Cold start on a weekend, going 1 mile to our local Publix. The engine will fire up as I pull onto the main road and shut down after 30 or so seconds. Same on the way back. I try to set the drive mode to "preserve EV" when I drive so it has a fighting chance to get to temp. Wife not so much.

 

[bdc101]

+1 here

Cold start on a weekend, going 1 mile to our local Publix. The engine will fire up as I pull onto the main road and shut down after 30 or so seconds. Same on the way back. I try to set the drive mode to "preserve EV" when I drive so it has a fighting chance to get to temp. Wife not so much.

Well it appears I'm wrong about current hybrids. My old 2010 Prius would run the engine until heat came out of the vents as soon as I started it. It would run it for far less time in the summer than the winter, especially if I didn't have the heater on. Do you just get no heat when you turn the heater on when you take it to Publix?

 

[UGASpike]

Well it appears I'm wrong about current hybrids. My old 2010 Prius would run the engine until heat came out of the vents as soon as I started it. It would run it for far less time in the summer than the winter, especially if I didn't have the heater on. Do you just get no heat when you turn the heater on when you take it to Publix?

Max heat/Max cold, it doesn't matter.

I would MUCH prefer it to get to operating temps first, then start the hybrid sequence. Luckily, this is my wife's car, and she has the long haul to work, so I know it gets its workout in.

EDIT: Given my region and the fact that my car is garage-kept would be the reason it does not keep the engine on for me.

 

[thickvthin]

+1 here

Cold start on a weekend, going 1 mile to our local Publix. The engine will fire up as I pull onto the main road and shut down after 30 or so seconds. Same on the way back. I try to set the drive mode to "preserve EV" when I drive so it has a fighting chance to get to temp. Wife not so much.

Well it appears I'm wrong about current hybrids. My old 2010 Prius would run the engine until heat came out of the vents as soon as I started it. It would run it for far less time in the summer than the winter, especially if I didn't have the heater on. Do you just get no heat when you turn the heater on when you take it to Publix?

It runs the engine until the coolant can provide the desired temp of the heater setting or depending on engine load. if its 90 outside and you set the heat to 70, that will not trigger engine "on" imo. I sit in my parked rav4 in cold weather and then the heater setting dictates engine on/off.