Are Hybrids really hard on oil?

[Ed_Flecko]

I was watching this video about how hard Hybrid vehicles are on oil, which I'm sure some of you have seen - "It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines" -

The video mentions that Hybrid vehicle gas motors often do not reach, and then maintain, 100°C for long enough duration to cause water and fuel dilution to evaporate. Because of this fact, Mobil 1 has developed an oil specifically for Hybrid vehicles to combat this problem(s). - https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-hybrid-0w-20

I'm just curious. For those of you who own Hybrid vehicles; have you performed an oil analysis? Did you see evidence of this problem in your analysis report(s)? Is this really a problem for the average, Hybrid vehicle and should the average owner be more cognizant of this and be sure to change their oil more often, etc., etc.?

Thank you,

Ed

 

[fantastic]

I'd say it's enough of a problem. However, if you're testing your oil and engine there should be indications to use other oils too.

 

[bdc101]

The oil temps might be cooler, but the engine gets used a lot less too. I'm skeptical. Was there any actual data in the video, like a test of the oil finding that it was worn out faster or full of water? I didn't listen to the whole thing. It sounds unlikely.

 

[fdcg27]

Since we don't see a significant number of hybrid ICEs failing at low miles, I suspect that the video the OP posted may be just an example of the clickbait junk that so many or them are.

 

[The_Sheriff]

Since we don't see a significant number of hybrid ICEs failing at low miles, I suspect that the video the OP posted may be just an example of the clickbait junk that so many or them are.

.
Right, and hybrids have proven to be very reliable to boot.
.

 

[Plumb Bob]

I own one, but I do hit the highway daily. I'm positive it goes above 212F.

 

[Japanese]

The oil temps might be cooler, but the engine gets used a lot less too.

Since we don't see a significant number of hybrid ICEs failing at low miles

Right, and hybrids have proven to be very reliable to boot.

I think all those appoints are right. Hybrids run mostly 0W-20 and 0W-16 oils but their engine probably works 50% (roughly) of the time compared to ICE cars.
I just changed the oil of a friend of mine hybrid RAV4 at 7.5K miles (overdue 2.5 miles) and the oil visibly looked not bad. My used oil never looks like that even at 5K miles.

 

[AZjeff]

Since we don't see a significant number of hybrid ICEs failing at low miles, I suspect that the video the OP posted may be just an example of the clickbait junk that so many or them are.

Don't think I'd call the Engineering Explained channel clickbait junk. Have you watched any videos ?

 

[fdcg27]

Don't think I'd call the Engineering Explained channel clickbait junk. Have you watched any videos ?

Thought I'd take you up on this so I watched this one.
While the presenter is earnest and in no way offensive or wannabe hip, the presentation was light on technical details and in some ways technically inaccurate. Examples include that you don't need to get to 212F oil temp to evaporate water from the oil as claimed in the video and frequent references to ZDDP with none to moly.
Overall, more of an extended ad for the hybrid flavor of Mobil 1 than something full of useful insights for hybrid owners.
Finally, if there is a downside to the stop/start nature of hybrids it has nothing to do with the oil but rather the possibility of frequent heating and cooling cycles causing head gasket failure, something this video does not touch on.

 

[Patman]

Thought I'd take you up on this so I watched this one.
While the presenter is earnest and in no way offensive or wannabe hip, the presentation was light on technical details and in some ways technically inaccurate. Examples include that you don't need to get to 212F oil temp to evaporate water from the oil as claimed in the video and frequent references to ZDDP with none to moly.

Are you saying that water only evaporates when it reaches 212F and below that it won’t? Because if you are saying that then you are wrong. That would mean that the roads would never get dry after it rains.

Water boils at 212, but below that it will still evaporate. It just takes longer. So if you have water in your oil and your oil temperature never reaches 212, that doesn’t mean the water stays there forever. Drive it long enough and it will evaporate eventually

 

[rijndael]

And, I'd note that oil in the pan is not the same temp as oil in the bearings. Oil at 195F, in the pan, may be a 270F in the bearings.

 

[fdcg27]

Are you saying that water only evaporates when it reaches 212F and below that it won’t? Because if you are saying that then you are wrong. That would mean that the roads would never get dry after it rains.

Water boils at 212, but below that it will still evaporate. It just takes longer. So if you have water in your oil and your oil temperature never reaches 212, that doesn’t mean the water stays there forever. Drive it long enough and it will evaporate eventually

That's what the video said or at least implied, not me.
That's why I wrote you don't need to get to 212F oil temp to evaporate water from the oil as claimed in the video

 

[Patman]

That's what the video said or at least implied, not me.
That's why I wrote you don't need to get to 212F oil temp to evaporate water from the oil as claimed in the video

I apologize, I misunderstood your stance on this. I’m shocked that anyone would say that water doesn’t evaporate until it reaches 212. Basic logic shows that to be wrong

 

[DCDG]

I think Direct injection is worse coupled with a hybrid system. Old school Prius' ran like champs. I have a sore issue with DI I feel it wasn't for the best of the owners interest and pockets. Give me the good old multi port injection any day.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The video mentions that Hybrid vehicle gas motors often do not reach, and then maintain, 100°C for long enough duration to cause water and fuel dilution to evaporate.

Can someone that owns a hybrid explain this to me - because I am considering a well used hybrid next. I though the battery in a hybrid is essentially acting as a capacitor - and for example if I were to take a 20 mile drive likely the engine would be running 90% of the time. Am I wrong?

 

[fdcg27]

Can someone that owns a hybrid explain this to me - because I am considering a well used hybrid next. I though the battery in a hybrid is essentially acting as a capacitor - and for example if I were to take a 20 mile drive likely the engine would be running 90% of the time. Am I wrong?

I don't think that analogizing the battery to a capacitor is apt. I find that you can go miles at a time in EV mode under favorable conditions.
Take your twenty mile drive. How fast would you be going? Steady state or stop and go? What's the ambient temperature? Will you use regen for all braking?
At moderate temperatures and moderate speeds, you'd probably find the car in EV mode 20% of the time, maybe a bit more. Any downgrade would typically see the car in EV mode and maybe even gaining charge at the same time.
These have been my observations in around 133K with the HAH.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I own two hybrids and cannot tell the difference in the oil except it stays clean looking for a long time. I live in a cold climate (SD) and even in the wintertime I cannot tell that the oil is compromised by water or gets dirty faster. Most hybrids have a history of running a long time and I do not believe the start and stop and running on battery makes much difference. I used Mobil 1 hybrid oil on my last oil change on my Ford Maverick hybrid but I did it at 1,500 miles just because it was brand new when I purchased it. Many owners make that first oil change early but I didn't on the Toyota Rav 4 hybrid and it didn't seem to make any difference. I still like to change at 5,000 miles therefore it probably doesn't make any difference. As far as excessive water in the oil I highly doubt it and I do believe it is burned off when the engine gets hot. It seems as if the engines heat up quickly however Chat GPT seems to state they warm up slower.

 

[fdcg27]

It seems as if the engines heat up quickly however Chat GPT seems to state they warm up slower.

The ICE in my Accord does seem to heat up about as quickly as what I've seen in non-hybrid cars, judging by the point at which the car produces useful heat output for the cabin, which depends entirely upon ICE coolant for heating.
The Accord does have an exhaust to coolant heat exchanger which probably helps in speeding warmup.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I don't think that analogizing the battery to a capacitor is apt. I find that you can go miles at a time in EV mode under favorable conditions.
Take your twenty mile drive. How fast would you be going? Steady state or stop and go? What's the ambient temperature? Will you use regen for all braking?
At moderate temperatures and moderate speeds, you'd probably find the car in EV mode 20% of the time, maybe a bit more. Any downgrade would typically see the car in EV mode and maybe even gaining charge at the same time.
These have been my observations in around 133K with the HAH.

Thank you for your detailed explanation. Realizing of course that every trip is different but if the car is in EV mode for 20% of the drive, then that means its running 80% of the time.

I could see a scenario in say a cold start 2 mile drive a hybrid might stay in EV mode mostly. Of course a 2 mile cold start drive is hard on a ICE car also.

Additionally, in my theoretical 20 mile drive the engine is running 80% of the time at peak efficiency, where my ICE only is doing hard accelerations and idle - both not good on oil comparatively.

Again, I understand what your saying I think, but I would believe this to be no harder on oil than a ICE car. Possibly less hard?

 

[fdcg27]

Again, I understand what your saying I think, but I would believe this to be no harder on oil than a ICE car. Possibly less hard?

I don't think that a hybrid is any more demanding of its oil than is a pure ICE.
It was the premise of the video posted by the OP, which sought to promote a flavor of Mobil 1 supposedly developed especially for hybrids.