Are high efficiency filters really needed?

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if great oil filtering is so important, how do the japanese cars like the hondas and toyotas I have owned seemed to run fine thru 200k miles with the factory oem filters (which I assume are NOT high efficiency)? do the japanese even make or sell "higher" efficiency oil filters?

their cars usually ugly you to death long b4 the engine dies.
 
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We all know of people who've put ridiculous mileage on Japanese cars using the orange can of death along with an inferior group 1 10W30 back in the day. We as bitog members tend to over think oil filters and oil.
 
Exactly!
I've put 340,000 miles on an '88 Accord using 5000 mile OCI with store brand oils and Fram OCOD. Sure, I've used name brand oils and other filter as well but, mostly the cheap stuff!

Oh, and often(but not always) using the filter for 2 OCI's.

The engine was still fine after 18 years when I sold it CHEEP, due to a rotted chassis from all of our winte salt.
 
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I agree with Skyactiv here, but I'm one of those people that wants the best in life. I can probably be fine with a regular, off the shelf Apple Macbook but I went all out and custom ordered one with a faster processor, more memory and 2x the RAM of the base model, just because I want the best stuff.

Same when I go shopping for food. I can buy the cheap orange juice on sale (that says "Contains only 10% juice" on the back label) but I go and purchase the higher quality stuff which is healthier and has 100% juice.

Same applies to my automobiles... I want the best for them, even if I do end up selling it, crashing it, or it falls apart long before I see any real benefit from the high quality oil / filters I used all those years.

It's been a while since I purchased oil or filters @ full retail price.
I still have a nice stock of Mobil 1 oil filter that I purchased on sale for $6.50 each.
 
Well said!
Folks have to do, what makes them sleep well at night
smile.gif


I too buy filters on sale now that I've found BITOG.
PuroClassic...FAR
PureOne $1.67 - final price
Mobil 1 - as your stated(Cheap-er)

smile.gif
 
some of the japanese cars of the 80'and 90's were built to run forever that is different today they dont seem to last like they did here in my engine shop seeing a japanese car in the ninetys usually meant it had high mileage that is not the case these days.
my beliefhas always been to use the filter that flows the best i rather dirty oil thannone at all
 
Well what about bypass oil filters, they are super high efficiency? If you want to get a lot of miles (like trucks do) out of an oil change, then a high efficiency filter is needed.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
some of the japanese cars of the 80'and 90's were built to run forever that is different today they dont seem to last like they did here in my engine shop seeing a japanese car in the ninetys usually meant it had high mileage that is not the case these days.
my beliefhas always been to use the filter that flows the best i rather dirty oil thannone at all

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Maybe this is what the Japanese oem filters are designed to do, flow
 
Just because an engine went 200K or 300K miles doesn't mean it's in good shape inside. It could have worn out and scored bearings and still run good enough for people to think it's "OK".

The real test would be to tear them down and look at the wear after that many miles.
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
some of the japanese cars of the 80'and 90's were built to run forever that is different today they dont seem to last like they did here in my engine shop seeing a japanese car in the ninetys usually meant it had high mileage that is not the case these days.
my beliefhas always been to use the filter that flows the best i rather dirty oil thannone at all

-------
Maybe this is what the Japanese oem filters are designed to do, flow


With a positive displacement oil pump, there is really no such thing as "a bad flowing oil filter" from the oil volume delivery to the engine aspect ... unless the oil pump is in pressure relief, which is very rare (takes very viscous oil and/or near red line engine RPM to get the pump into pressure relief mode).

People always seem to over look this fact. Now if the oiling system in vehicles was strictly a pressure fed system (like the water system in your house), then the restrictiveness of the oil filter would effect oil volume delivery to the engine.
 
Ah yes ... this old question again ....

Here's the bottom line:
filters do NOTHING to improve the life expectancy of equipment directly. Note that I said "directly". They have an INdirect effect on equipment. However, they have a DIRECT effect in the status of lube health.

What makes a piece of equipment last is the relative cleanliness of the sump. There are two ways to get that effect:
1) drain and fill
2 "better" filtration

Filters don't make equipment last longer, but they do make fluids last longer in service. Therefore more efficient filters (often paired with higher media holding capacity) will make the fluid last longer.

As long as the sump contaminant level is below some threshold (often known to, but not publically acknowledged by, the OEM), then it's safe for use. If you have a clean running engine, that has an inherrently good lube system design, then the engine and lubes can last a long time. If not, then both the lubes and equipment will degrade in short order.

We're trained by marketing bombardment to believe that "more" is "better"; hence more OCIs with better filters MUST be the only salvation your engine has to look forward to. But the reality is quite different. Several of us have been experimenting with longer OCIs and longer FCIs, and are realizing that the marketing is hooey. Again - this is predicated on a healthy piece of equipment and not a known sludger or poor performer resulting from years of true neglect.

Some level of filtration is very important. But it's only critical above a certain particulate size. Higher efficiency filters don't seem to provide ROI in a typical "normal" OCI. In fact, typical filters can often do 2x or 3x the "normal" O/FCI and still fare well.

The key to success is to get something in return for your efforts. If you spend 25% more cash on a product, does that product return 25% "more" of benefit "X"? In terms of filters, does it either extend your OCI out 25%, or reduce your wear rates by 25%? If not, then it didn't pay for itself. And so very often, it's not a matter of what the product is capable of, but what the user artificially limits it to. Until you operate in conditions that would usurp a "normal" product's capability, there is no tangible advantage to be gleaned from a premium alternative. Hence, more and better are not beneficial; they're wasteful.

We so often hear about "cheap insurance". OK - let's discuss that.
Where is the line for "cheap" versus "waste"? If a "normal" filter can go 10-15k miles, and you change it at 5k miles, then you're already WELL within a safety margin. To use a "better" fitler (high efficiency) at 5k miles as a means of extra "insurance" is heaping waset upon waste. At what point do you acknowledge waste past any reasonable measure? There is no sensible ROI.

If you use a more efficient filter, it likely will not pay for itself in normal circumstances. It's really no different than any premium lube.

If you WANT to do so, then go for it; nothing wrong with satisfying a desire. But it's highly likely that you don't "need" it. And to prove it to be so needed, you'd have to run a LONG series of trials that would be past the patience of most any BITOGer.
 
You guys are looking for "one-size-fits-all" answers where they don't exist.

High efficiency filters are better in every sense, however the benefits in wear reduction are not readily apparent or particularly cost effective below the "normal" threshold of common OEM and aftermarket filtration (let's say absolute at 45 microns). The Japanese OEMs with the moderate efficiency filters are bumping right up against the roof on that, IMO, but it's likely a very calculated choice for equipment they know best. I don't necessarily buy the "flow" argument as the sole reason, though that's a part of it. I think its mainly a combo of an institutional attitude, and a move towards MAINTAINING good flow over a LONG OCI with a pretty small filter. Brand new, just about any filter has enough flow. Add 10K of stop & go to it, some sludge, or two FCIs, flow could decrease in a worst case scenario and perhaps cause a problem. With an attentive owner and not a worst case, there is nothing to worry about even with the highest efficiency filter you can buy. The main benefit to a high efficiency filter is that if will keep the oil healthy longer but that only give a payback if you utilize the capability of the oil for a longer OCI. Low efficiency filters are merely the Japanese's one size fits all solution, not necessarily the best one or the only one and certainly doesn't apply across the board.

If you want to go back into history, you can see that engines started lasting a lot longer when they went from bypass to full-flow filtration. The same thing happened when they moved towards more efficient full flow filters but the "benefits curve" started leveling off at around 45 microns absolute and the industry decided that was a good place to stop. Only in specialized cases do you see finer full-flow filtration or bypass systems added and those are where they are necessary for some reason and where a customer is willing to pony up for the extra costs.
 
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