Are CVT’s something to stay away from?

[WeyounDS9]

Or is their bad reputation something just from the web? Just curious as many new vehicles are coming with them.

Disclaimer. Ive never driven one so I have no idea how they even handle. Having not owned one, I am not sure on their service life either.

CVTs used to suck. The newer ones are much better.

My old 2009 Maxima with the CVT did real well especially when the sport mode was turned on.
in 2017 The Pathfinder CVT was strengthen for major towing. A buddy of mine is a tech and saw the steel belt he says it looks big enough to tow a tank.
I also used to own a 2014 Altima with CVT. Not an enthusiast car but I enjoyed the heck out of 40 mpg on the interstate.
Even though it was only a 4 cylinder at 2.5L it was one of the bigger 4 cylinders out there.
In my opinion the excellent almost hybrid like mpg on that Altima would not have been possible w/o the CVT.

One thing to understand though is this: Since CVTs do not have sacrificial clutches they can theoretically last nearly forever.
However the reason they do not, is because the (high viscosity) fluid takes the role of the sacrificial clutch as it is the intended isolating layer between the steel belt and the spindle and this is not changed by most owners.
This is why its critical you absolutely MUST change the CVT fluid regularly, (and with the right fluid!) preferably more frequent than the manual states.

 

[Motu]

Weird, the US/Canadian market Fit never got the CVT -

And probably not the L13 engine either. It's all about economy, something I don't think is important in a land of cheap fuel. Elsewhere in the world we need them cheap to run. I think a manual Jazz/Fit is doing about 3,000rpm at 100kph, the CVT version is doing 2,000rpm at the same speed.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Nissan/Jatco CVTs are nice because they are so easy to do fluid changes on. We're at 62K miles on our 2019 Pathfinder. I've done 5-6 drain/fills on it so far.

The 2017 and later Pathfinders have the strongest CVTs in existence to meet the advertised towing numbers. A buddy of mine is a Nissan master tech and he says he sees customers abusing the heck out of them with overweight towing with few issues. He says the CVT steel belt is huge in those. Even better than the Maxima CVT.
All the Nissan V6 CVT seem been pretty trouble free if receiving fluid changes but I expect your pathfinder CVT to be bulletproof.
The 4 cylinder CVTs especially before 2018 need a non abusive environment to stay out of trouble.
And the older 4 cylinder ones overheated too easily eseially in versa.
That being said ,I rode in a versa taxi a couple years ago in Washington DC, with 459,000 miles on it with original CVT (and engine etc), so the internet always amplifies any real or imagined "badness", because who goes on the internet to report. "my car is so trouble free"

 

[nthach]

And probably not the L13 engine either. It's all about economy, something I don't think is important in a land of cheap fuel. Elsewhere in the world we need them cheap to run. I think a manual Jazz/Fit is doing about 3,000rpm at 100kph, the CVT version is doing 2,000rpm at the same speed.

The US/Canada Fit was the L15 and your choice of a 5-speed automatic or manual. And Honda marketed it as a “economy” car, but the MPG for its size wasn’t spectacular, it was stickered for 32/36 IIRC. The Civic got nearly the same MPG. I worked at a Honda dealer during the 2008-2009 Great Recession - while Honda wanted the younger generation to buy Fits, we got a lot of 50-70 year olds who bought them. Then, the Prius was en vogue during $5/gallon gas but also had a huge waiting list and dealers were marking them up by $5-10K. Many of the people who bought Fits from us didn’t want to wait or pay the markup for a Prius(but there were fine laying a $500-1000 markup with us) but didn’t want to gamble with a Honda hybrid. Only 10% of the Civics we sold were hybrid. The Civic Hybrid came with the dual-spark version of the L13 I think.

 

[Motu]

The L12, L13 and L15 are all i-DSI...twin plugs, the L15 also comes in VTEC, with single plugs and 4 valves. The i-DSI engines have a low torque peak rpm, and a flat torque curve, this works really well with CVT, they just surf along on the torque. The VTEC engine has more power of course, but the max torque is at higher rpm, so it revs higher to do the same job.

 

[Skippy722]

CVT’s are perfectly fine for people who want nothing more than an appliance on wheels is my opinion of them. That being said… they’re better than the Chrysler 545RFE/65RFE, which I maintain is one of the worst transmissions I’ve ever had the displeasure of driving. At least with a CVT you don’t get one gear that feels great then falls flat on its face and never really recovers.

 

[CharBaby]

I personally like CVTs . Do I want one in every one of my vehicles? NO!
However...Yes, I believe that CVTs have their issues and their reputation. BUT, not ever single solitary CVT is going to fail. The failure rate is just too high and I suppose that NISSAN has the worst reputation. And they work more often than not!
And though I don't speak statistically, everyone that I know with a CVT has piled on ~ 200K without issues...or this is about the miles they started to have issues. And these people who I know, haven't done any tranny maintenance the way that I do.

Hey, we had a LEXUS conventional automatic tranny die at 150K miles and the maintenance was beyond what anyone should need to do. The ATF and filter/screen was D&F'd 8X(eight times) in that period...I mean, what the ****?
This whole vehicle was maintained to a very high level and it had many issues beyond the tranny.

Stay away from CVTs if you don't like the way they drive...I like'em!
Stay away from CVTs if you're worried about failure after warranty.
Stay away from CVTs if you're keeping the vehicle a long time.
I mean, if you have to question it, don't buy one.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

in the Bay Area, the Sentra/Altima and Rogue are popular with the gig economy, if they were inherently bad, I would see a line of them waiting for repairs at the dealer or the many “mechanics” around there. Word also spreads quickly amongst Uber/Lyft/Doordash drivers too. But, one well-known Japanese car specialist here ceased supporting them - citing that the local dealer switched from Nissan to being a CJDR dealer and the gig economy.

I think the owners play a part in it. Nissan definitely caters to the low credit, low income crowd. They don't do any maintenance. Nissans do not live good lives. For a while, you could lease a Versa or Sentra through Uber to use for ride sharing.

 

[Ronin73]

Nissan definitely caters to the low credit, low income crowd.

How so? I think this is a very ridiculous statement.

 

[CharBaby]

I agree with Miller88. Most of these owners don't do squat for maintenance with these vehicles and many lease. Nissan is known as a value brand. There is a lot of cash on the hood the way it is at most Chevrolet & Ford dealers. I mean, several thousand dollars right up front. Is it like that right now? Probably not! No one is giving these huge deals when there are few vehicles to be had.
My buddy gets $5k, $6K, $7K off of his new Chevy's during the normal times. Another buddy or buddies were getting $10K-$11K off of their new F Series or Silverados

I got $7K knocked off of my '15 Altima. 1 1/2 yrs later, my niece got $8K knocked off of her new '17 Altima by just walking into the dealer@ month end. Nissans are known as a rental car vehicle. They're everywhere. Can you do this today during our Covid Pandemic? Probably not!

Hyundai/KIA were(key word...WERE) doing something similar with multiple discounts & rebates if you qualify.

Of course, this is(or was) all regional and month-to-month dependent.

 

[PimTac]

I have a relative with a five year old Civic that just went over 200,000 miles on the clock. Absolutely no problems at all including the CVT.

 

[CharBaby]

200k or even 300k is typically the rule for most HonYotas. The exception to the rule is when they don’t.
I’ve put on over 300k on a Honda Accord but couldn’t get past 150k on a Lexus.

 

[duck__dodgers]

Mazda CX5 and CX9 [if i recall correctly)

CVT: no, start-stop: no, direct injection: yes (but Skyactiv does not have a bad reputation for carbon).

 

[nthach]

I think the owners play a part in it. Nissan definitely caters to the low credit, low income crowd. They don't do any maintenance. Nissans do not live good lives. For a while, you could lease a Versa or Sentra through Uber to use for ride sharing.

You still can - via Hertz and Uber. The local Enterprise did have an rideshare program as well.

Lyft uses mostly Hyundais for Express Drive - last time I drove by their driver depot, it was full of Elantras and Ioniqs.

Once upon a time, the major rental companies were owned by the Detroit 3(Hertz was Ford, Avis/Alamo/National was GM, Dollar and Thrifty was Chrysler) and Enterprise was happy to get whatever the local dealership was willing to sell to them. Now, rental fleets are mostly Nissan or Hyundai with some GM and Stellantis tossed in. Detroit doesn’t own them and there’s consolidation(Hertz/Dollar/Thrifty, Avis/Budget and Enterprise/Alamo/National).

 

[NDL]

I am sold on Toyota's CVT's; can anyone tell me of the CVT in Honda's CRV? Do they make them in house? Any ideas on longevity?

 

[nthach]

I am sold on Toyota's CVT's; can anyone tell me of the CVT in Honda's CRV? Do they make them in house? Any ideas on longevity?

Honda CVTs are all in-house, made in Japan or Russell’s Point, OH. Longevity seems to be good - no posts here of grenading Honda CVTs and they seem to handle the torque of the 1.5T L15 engine fine. They are easier to do spill and fills on - no scan tool needed to access fluid temp, fluid level is set at the check plug.

Caveat emptor - Honda calls for 2 fluids, their old-school CVTF for the first two Insights, CR-Z and Civic Hybrid. HCF-2 is used for everything else. There are aftermarket CVTFs out there, use at your own risk.

 

[Danh]

Honda CVTs are all in-house, made in Japan or Russell’s Point, OH. Longevity seems to be good - no posts here of grenading Honda CVTs and they seem to handle the torque of the 1.5T L15 engine fine. They are easier to do spill and fills on - no scan tool needed to access fluid temp, fluid level is set at the check plug.

Caveat emptor - Honda calls for 2 fluids, their old-school CVTF for the first two Insights, CR-Z and Civic Hybrid. HCF-2 is used for everything else. There are aftermarket CVTFs out there, use at your own risk.

Well, I have one on a CRV, but maybe not CVT-specific. A bad seal design eventually allows fluid to leak from the torque converter that in turn will result in a stall when selecting reverse on a cold start. This occurred several times a year after the warranty was up.

I guess I could have traded it or ignored it, but as the car is otherwise a “keeper”, I decided to repair. In Honda-land, these aren’t repaired but replaced with a remanufactured unit, presumably with upgraded parts.

Honda covered 70% of the cost, but it was still $1,600 to me. Probably not really very generous of Honda as they got the core back, could update for not a lot and sell it for c. $5k.

Was this the fault of CVTs generally or just one of those things? Good question.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

How so? I think this is a very ridiculous statement.

The $200 down, $200/month leases kinda indicate that. They must have been doing the leases at a loss to keep people out of car ownership and a never ending cycle of leases ...

 

[PimTac]

Mazda CX5 and CX9 [if i recall correctly)

CVT: no, start-stop: no, direct injection: yes (but Skyactiv does not have a bad reputation for carbon).

That depends on the model trim. CVT no. Start/Stop yes. Cylinder deactivation, yes.

 

[Ronin73]

The $200 down, $200/month leases kinda indicate that. They must have been doing the leases at a loss to keep people out of car ownership and a never ending cycle of leases ...

I don't lease vehicles, so that pricing structure is of no concern to me. Thanks for the info, though. I have an almost perfect credit score and very nice income and I bought 2021 Nissan Altima for my wife. Super nice vehicle, reasonably priced, and looks and feels premium. Most people who buy them in my area are well-to-do, so I would say your argument isn't valid in my neck of the woods.