Are all 5-speed Honda/Acura automatics predoomed to a failure???

[Dominik]

JUst bought a 2002 Acura 3.2 CL type S with 5-speet auto did 2 drain/refills and the stuff came out dark red with brownish tinge (looked pinkish o a tissue). I know the Honda will not OK any other fluid but ATF Z-1 but there must be some fluid out there that will fit this application. So far the shifts -after it warms up- are ok at some rpms allmost undetectible but other times I can always tell the 2-3 upshift, it has been 5 years since the the last time I have driven automatic so I may be a bit over-reacting.
The Honda/Acura extedded warranty chills me out a bit but still I think a better (synthetic) ATF could be an extra warranty.
Has anyone tried M1 or Amsoil in their 5-speed Honda/Acura AT?
Should I expect the upshifts to be absolutely seamless in this sporty car?? or am I to paranoid???

P.S.
I did notice a slight improvement in shift quality after 2 drain refills (2.8 quarts out of 7.8 quart total) Hmmmmmm..... I think I did.

 

[moving2]

Couldn't find the CL recall exactly, but here's the TL recall which is similar:

2002 Acura TL Type-S NHTSA Recall ID Number: 04V176000
Recall Date: APR 15, 2004
Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
Potential Units Affected: 1099796
Summary: ON SOME MINI VANS, SPORT UTILITY AND PASSENGER VEHICLES, CERTAIN OPERATING CONDITIONS CAN RESULT IN HEAT BUILD-UP BETWEEN THE COUNTERSHAFT AND SECONDARY SHAFT SECOND GEARS IN THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, EVENTUALLY LEADING TO GEAR TOOTH CHIPPING OR GEAR BREAKAGE.
Consequence: GEAR FAILURE COULD RESULT IN TRANSMISSION LOCKUP, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
Remedy: ON VEHICLES WITH 15,000 MILES OR LESS, THE DEALER WILL UPDATE THE TRANSMISSION WITH A SIMPLE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE TO INCREASE LUBRICATION TO THE SECOND GEAR. ON VEHICLES WITH MORE THAN 15,000 MILES, THE DEALER WILL INSPECT THE TRANSMISSION TO IDENTIFY GEARS THAT HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED DISCOLORATION DUE TO OVERHEATING. IF DISCOLORATION EXISTS, THE TRANSMISSION WILL BE REPLACED IF DISCOLORATION IS NOT PRESENT, THE DEALER WILL PERFORM THE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 21, 2004, FOR PILOT, ODYSSEY, AND MDX OWNERS. OWNERS OF THE ACCORD VEHICLES WILL START RECEIVING LETTERS ON JUNE 28, 2004, AND ON JUNE 29, 2004, FOR OWNERS OF THE TL AND CL VEHICLES. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009 OR ACURA AT 1-800-382-2238.
Notes: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO., P30/P31

 

[seotaji]

quote:

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With OEM fluids, use a bottle of Lubegard/Smartblend 'red'.

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If you are still covered by the factory extended warranty, I wouldn't reccomend using anything other than what they want. If they find other stuff in the fluid they could use it to invalidate your warranty.

Not all of the transmissons were defective. I know of some people that haven't had any issues at all. It was a certain batch of them that used poor quality friction materials in the clutch discs. The material would come apart and plug the fluid return lines, thus starving the tranny of fluid.

 

[Dominik]

So it only was a certain batch, from certain supplier then? Well I guess that since my tranny has got 58,00 miles on it and shifts pretty good it makes me one of the lucky ones.
I guess a good ATF cooler would only make things better then?

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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was a certain batch of them that used poor quality friction materials in the clutch discs. The material would come apart and plug the fluid return lines, thus starving the tranny of fluid.

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If that's true, then Honda's fix doesn't address the cause of the problem.

 

[PandaBear]

From what I read on acurazine.com, the ones after 2004 seems ok, but the ones before that eventually will fail within the warranty, not due to the lack of oil jet, but due to the 3rd gear clutch pack's lack of lubrication issue.

 

[pbm]

Is this the same A/T problem that exists in previous generation (98'-01') Honda Accords? My neighbors 00' crapped out at 126K and he mentioned a "carrier bearing". It was a $2000 fix even after Honda paid for the parts.

 

[unDummy]

Make sure that all recalls and TSBs are addressed 1st.

With OEM fluids, use a bottle of Lubegard/Smartblend 'red'.

Amsoil/SpecialtyFormulations have a synth if thats what you want.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't think it was the same issue. The ones they mentioned fail usually failed betweek 35k to 85k on TL and many V6 accord.

Carrier bearing is not something that I have heard about that commonly fail. $2000 fix on a 126k auto tranny is nothing to brag about, but I wouldn't consider it miserable either.

 

[The Critic]

Dominik,
We have an entire transmission subforum in the 2nd Generation CL forum over at Acurazine...I personally moderate the 2nd Generation RL section on Acurazine.

The pre-2004 Honda/Acura 5-spd ATs are extremely troublesome and often fail. The problem the oil jet recall addressed was the inadequate lubrication to the 2nd gear. Inadequate lubrication to the 2nd gear of the transmission only caused failure in a few transmissions, but the majority of the transmissions failed due to problems with the 3rd Gear clutchpack, as PandaBear mentioned earlier.

If you haven't already checked, check with the Acura dealer to see the past history with your transmission. If the oil jet has been installed, then you either have the original transmission or an early replacement transmission prior to the factory integration of the oil jet. Many of the transmissions that have had the oil jet installed fail before 100K. The replacement transmissions have been good so far, though we've had a few 3G TLs that have the post-recall transmission, turn the factory ATF "brown" within 30K.

Since there are so many problems with the Honda/Acura 5-spd Automatic transmissions, especially the CLs and TLs, I highly doubt that Honda will investigate the type of fluid used, as one Acura tech told me that they replace multiple transmissions daily. In addition, depending on your dealer, a good number of dealers are still replacing the transmissions if they fail outside of warranty.

If you were to use an aftermarket ATF that does not contain the necessary FMs for Honda Z-1 apps, use the correct amount of Lubegard BLACK NOT RED with your desired fluid. Otherwise, use Amsoil Universal ATF or Molakule's Autoglide ATF Z-1.

Lastly, I wouldn't add any aftermarket coolers to the transmission...if the tranny fails and the dealer sees the aftermarket cooler, you wouldn't want them to use that as an excuse to deny the repair.

Mike

 

[Schmoe]

I hope this isn't the same AT that they are using in the 06 Accords, which I just bought. One thing I have noticed is that when slowing down, the AT likes to downshift. I mean, you can feel it unlike our 02 Accord. Wonder if that has something to do with it.

 

[robbobster]

Didn't all this seem to start when Honda started making their engines rotate the "right" way?

 

[Matt89]

I hope they're not doomed...I now have 2 of them!

Still debating whether to go with Amsoil ATF in them...

 

[Pablo]

I have heard of no problems with Amsoil ATF, which has the Z-1 mark, in Hondas.

The Odessy will get Amsoil ATF, eventually.

 

[Titan]

Pablo, when you say the Amsoil has the Z-1 mark, do you mean Amsoil says it meets the Z-1 requirements? I have an Odyssey, too, and would like to move to synthetics at some point...probably after the warranty is up.
Thanks!

 

[Pablo]

yes - Amsoil ATF - Honda Z-1 (Not for use in CVT transmissions) AND Amsoil will stand behind it.

I am not sure why "Only Mola would probably know for sure."

 

[Titan]

Thanks, Pablo. I'm only 7K into my Odyssey, so, I'm not ready to dump the factory fill, yet. I WOULD like to know when you dump yours to go to Amsoil's Z-1.

 

[Schmoe]

This has come up before, numerous times. Honda ain't telling what's in their stuff. Only Mola would probably know for sure. I, like others here, have a hard time using a ATF that can be used in place of other ATF's across the board. I sure wouldn't trust it. I think with the Honda transmissions, your just going to have to change it out every 20 to 30K to help make it last longer. On the Honda's, it's pretty easy, just drop the fluids and replenish. No need for dropping the pan.

 

[glxpassat]

Our Odyssey's tranny failed at 85k and was replaced under the extended warrenty which lasts until 100k. After it rolled over 100k I started using Valvoline Maxlife which states will work for z-1, and valvoline will stand behind it if you keep your reciepts. The maxlife shifts better than the Honda z-1 and doesn't turn brown as fast. The Honda z-1 is also used in their CVT trannys, so it's kind-of a mixed breed fluid and probably is not synthetic. Anyway I swap out 3 quarts in the spring and the fall to keep it fresh and haven't had any problems, now at 117k miles.

 

[pbm]

One thing is for sure--the great Honda Co. is making some inferior transmissions. This goes with what I consider to be an inferior front brake system. So much for Japanese perfection.
No more Hondas for me.