Arctic Spec Oils

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3,346
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Clarksville, Tennessee
Anyone have any information on Arctic Oils? Here is a quote that I'm trying to come up with an answer to on another thread.
quote:
The most stressful operation an engine faces is start-up -- some 90%+ of the wear occurring at that time... and the time that follows. The lower the engine (ambient) temp, the more wear that can be expected. Petroleum based oils cut this wear by a factor of 3:1 over synthetics that do not contain special (non-commercial) additive packages to help with "cling strength" (Look for "Arctic Spec" oils and you'll find they are petroleum based). I never use synthetic motor oil in vehicles that face 40F or below starts. And the colder it is, the more care I take in getting the engine fully warmed by running at fast idle... stopped.
I don't think it's possible to make a 0wX oil without at least some synthetic base in there. Also I don't get the "Cling" issue, what the heck is ment by that. Is there some test that shows the "cling" that is left on the engine internals after shutdown?
 
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1,933
Location
Oklahoma
To my knowledge "cling [Smile] " can only come from the Polarity of an Ester or a tackifier added to a dino. I do not think a tackifier would be what one would want in Artic conditions . Chevron has an 0/30 with a -76F pour point,,the CCP is 2780 @-30C I wish I had the MRV TP-1 data on that oil and the MSDS. They " Chevron/Phillips Chemicals" do make PAO's but it's hard to tell if they are in the oil w/o the MSDS or possibly by the MRV TP-1 data. Chevron has some neat UCBO's that could be used here.Dunno and off topic [Wink]
 

Patman

Staff member
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Oakville, Ontario
Hehe, how did I know you were going to be the first one to respond in here Dragboat! [Smile] You are "the king of the oils that nobody has heard about!" [Big Grin]
 

Al

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Elizabethtown, Pa
I don't take much stock in that post. I don't believe the 90% issue. He talked about "fully" warmning it up on fast idle [Eek!] As was pointed out esters are great with clinging to metals. Looks like an opinion based on numbers pulled out of who knows where [Frown]
 

msparks

Thread starter
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Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Ken2: So, do you trust what some doofus writes on the 'net, or what Chevron says? (My money's on Chevron.) Ken
Hahaha, too funny, it's amazing what some folks come up with. This guy reasons that it's okay to let a water cooled bike sit and warm up, but it's not okay to let a air/oil cooled on. On my BMW I would ride off within 1 minute of starting, On my triumph, since I can start it with the side stand down(BMW doesn't do this) I start it up before I get my helmet and gloves on, which equates to about 2 minutes, by that time it comes down from the high idle a bit. Either way I never just let them sit and idle for more that 2 minutes tops no matter what the weather is!!
 
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2,480
I agree, this opinion seems to come from nowhere. Synthetics flow better. They're better at sub-zero/artic temps. That's because the comparable conventional oil is motor honey. Does this mean it 'clings' better? Probably...but does it lubricate? Does it lubricate if it's frozen, but clings? Com'mon... Tip off to the B.S. is the last quote. If you left your car to idle at -40C, it would probably take 40-60 minutes (or more) to reach operating temp...compared to about 15 min.. Nobody advocates racing the immediate second after start-up, but the fuel wasted idling is nonsensical.
 
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Hey! That Chevron oil is available in a 5/40 wt Here is the MSDS,,can ya say to some other 5/40 Group III's that> move over little dog, a big dog's....moving in [Wink] SYNTHETIC BASE OIL CONTAINING: > 60.00% SYNTHETIC HYDROCARBON BASE OIL Chemical Name: 1-DECENE, TRIMER, HYDROGENATED CAS68649127 SYNTHETIC HYDROCARBON BASE OIL Chemical Name: 1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER, HYDROGENATED CAS68037014 SYNTHETIC HYDROCARBON BASE OIL Chemical Name: 1-DECENE/1-DODECENE, CO-POLYMER, HYDROGENATED CAS151006609 OR ISOSYN BASE OILS 5 mg/m3 (mist) ACGIH TWA 10 mg/m3 (mist) ACGIH STEL 5 mg/m3 (mist) OSHA PEL ADDITIVES INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING < 40.00% ZINC ALKYL DITHIOPHOSPHATE Chemical Name: PHOSPHORODITHIOIC ACID,O,O-DI-C1-14-ALKYL ESTERS, ZINC SALT CAS68649423 < 2.00% 1 LBS CERCLA 302.4 RQ MAY CONTAIN DIISODECYL AZELATE Chemical Name: DIISODECYL AZELATE CAS28472971 < 20.00% [ February 14, 2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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Iowegia - USA
That tells me it MAY contain a three-component mix of PAO's and additives OR, it may contain a Group III oil. Most likey the latter. "DIISODECYL AZELATE" This is the di-ester that was used in the Alaskan Pipeline Motor Oils. Is used to lower pour points. Amsoil used to use this along with a Sebasic Acid Ester in their early formulations. [ February 14, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
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529
Location
Manitoba, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: Nobody advocates racing the immediate second after start-up, but the fuel wasted idling is nonsensical.
I had a neighbor who did that, nailed the gas upon startup. That engine did not last very long! I doubt she ever ever thought of using 5W30 let alone looking up pour points. Wherever you are now, Mrs W, you are an IDIOT! [Mad]
 
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Washington St.
Chevron sez: "Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic heavy duty motor oils are multipurpose 100% synthetic lubricants formulated for use in gasoline and diesel engines, torque converters, gear cases, and hydraulic systems operating in subzero arctic-type temperatures. "They are manufactured using stable synthetic base stocks. These oils utilize highly dispersed viscosity index improvers that promote stable viscosities and soot dispersancy between oil drains." "Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic heavy duty motor oils maintain excellent deposit control. They retard the formation of sludge, deposits, and varnish associated with low and high temperature operation, thus keeping engines clean. These oils also provide outstanding wear, rust, and corrosion protection. "With their low viscosity, Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic heavy duty motor oils assure consistent engine starting. The improved low temperature pumpability also reduces wear." "Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic heavy duty motor oils are recommended for use in diesel and four-stroke cycle gasoline engines, torque converters, gear cases, and hydraulic systems operating year-round in arctic-type climates." Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic SAE 0W-30 So, do you trust what some doofus writes on the 'net, or what Chevron says? (My money's on Chevron.) Ken [ February 14, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
 
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Harrisonburg VA
When speaking about arctic engine oils, one needs to be aware that the Army lead in the development of synthetic based engine oils which were subsequently used in the construction of the Alaskan pipeline during the mid 1970s. During the '60s, the Army had been experiencing some serious engine failures as they were using a petroleum based engine oil for both gasoline and diesel engine service. The oil was not holding up as they were experiencing extremely high oil consumption and engine failures. Work started in about 1966 on development of an arctic oil using the available synthetic materials. This work led to the development of a purchase description that had three approved oils, one using the PAO materials (qualified to Mobil), one using the diester materials (qualified to Emery Industries), and the third was an alkylated benzene material (qualified to Chevron I believe). All three had been thoroughly field tested and were introduced in 1969. This pruchase description became a military specification MIL-L-46167 that was called Engine Oil, Arctic. Well, the Emery product then became a commercially marketed product that was called FridigCo which then became the prime candidate for use when construciton began for the pipeline.
 
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8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by msparks: Anyone have any information on Arctic Oils? Here is a quote that I'm trying to come up with an answer to on another thread.
quote:
The most stressful operation an engine faces is start-up -- some 90%+ of the wear occurring at that time... and the time that follows. The lower the engine (ambient) temp, the more wear that can be expected. Petroleum based oils cut this wear by a factor of 3:1 over synthetics that do not contain special (non-commercial) additive packages to help with "cling strength" (Look for "Arctic Spec" oils and you'll find they are petroleum based). I never use synthetic motor oil in vehicles that face 40F or below starts. And the colder it is, the more care I take in getting the engine fully warmed by running at fast idle... stopped.
I don't think it's possible to make a 0wX oil without at least some synthetic base in there. Also I don't get the "Cling" issue, what the heck is ment by that. Is there some test that shows the "cling" that is left on the engine internals after shutdown?

I've read some goofy stuff on the web that's been put out as "hey, I know what I'm talking about" FACT, but this quote takes the cake. As others have already pointed out, TRUE arctic oils have always been synthetics. Even the best conventional oil (loaded with PPD) wil be a thick gel at the extreme sub-zero temps of the arctic. This quote is from a guy who is totally clueless when it comes to cold weather protection for an engine.
 
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180
Location
Harrisonburg VA
G-Man, You stated "TRUE arctic oils have always been synthetics" is correct if you are talking from the period in the mid to late '70s to the present. Before that time, the oils that were being marketed in Alaska were petroleum with lots of VII. There were no synthetic arctic oils being marketed then.
 
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Oklahoma
A bit off topic but yet related ,,here is a current 10wt oil 55 @ 40C 7.9 @ 100C PP -42F Flash 439F Sulphated Ash .089 TBN 8.1 Compared to a couple nameless new API 5/20's I gotta say scary huh? [Razz]
 
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149
Location
Carlsbad CA
Boy this thread brings back memories...........I spent my wasted youth up there doing construction work on that damned pipeline. Much of the work was done in the winter to avoid damaging the tundra. While I wasn't in motor pool I can tell you that most cars/diesels would not start at -40 without pre-heat. As I recall they were using Conoco, but it wasn't the oil as much as the fuel wouldn't vaporize at those temps. My own truck was left running all day, and plugged in at night. Most of the Cats (diesels) just ran all the time. Mike
 
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Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by mojo: G-Man, You stated "TRUE arctic oils have always been synthetics" is correct if you are talking from the period in the mid to late '70s to the present. Before that time, the oils that were being marketed in Alaska were petroleum with lots of VII. There were no synthetic arctic oils being marketed then.
I was under the impression that some of the earliest attempts at creating an oil that could pump in the arctic was to blend conventional solvent dewaxed base oil with lots of pour point depresent and then add some ester. The first TRUE arctic oils came along when 100% synthetic based oils were introduced in the late 60s.
 
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Location
Oklahoma
Yeah Conoco made a Polar 600 or something like that back then. Dad said when stationed in Alaska they left the trucks running < Era Korean Conflict> Hmmm,the word War was left out [Wink]
 
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Location
Carlsbad CA
That reminds me; there were a lot of people coming up to Ak at the time as it was booming, and wages were high. The construction companies would keep a truck up on the slope for a couple years, then bring them back and sell them in town (Anchorage, Fairbanks). What a deal: a 3 year old truck with only 5-10K miles or so. LOL Mike
 
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Location
Harrisonburg VA
"blend conventional solvent dewaxed base oil with lots of pour point depresent and then add some ester" Don't think that was the case with the arctic oils that were being used by the military. These oils were using petroleum basestocks that had to meet a -65 F to 0 F requirement. The base oils being used were relatvely light as the engines were experiencing high oil consumption. Further, we actually had to develop a special procedure to measure crankcase dilution as the light basestocks interferred with the then current ASTM test method for measuring crankcase dilution.
 
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