Apprentice System Operator Job Posting, California

[MVAR]

Hey everyone. On another forum I'm on I post up utility career opportunities from time to time. Figured I would put one up here to see if anyone(or their kids) might be interested.

PG&E has posted openings for Apprentice System Operators. In this position one will learn to control PG&E's transmission system between 60kV - 500kV. This is an 18-24mo program that is given at an "accelerated" pace. I'm not going to kid anyone here, this will be an intense program & the traditional failure rate isn't inconsequential. At completion of the program though one will be a NERC certified system operator (I recommend taking the RC test and not just the TO to open up future opportunities). You will be recruited by several utilities across the nation and licensed to operate from Baja, MX, Contenential USA & Canada.

The starting apprentice rate is $46.25/hr and will receive a raise every 6 months. I believe this positions journeyman(TSO) rate is in around $75/hr. From TSO, one then promotes to Senior TSO or Dispatcher, both are around $90/hr. I still have a friend there as a Senior Dispatcher that's a bit over $100/hr but believe that position is being phased out after Dispatchers went union (senior dispatcher was the relief supervisor).

I've heard PG&E is continuing to bring on people to assist with, what used to be, the overwhelming amount of overtime. I've been told there are a few crews fully staffed so there's only occasional ot. That wasn't the case a few years ago when many crews were short staffed & the low man on the ot list had 1000hrs of ot.

I'm not affiliated with PG&E & will receive nothing if someone I know is hired. This is just to bring awareness to those who may not be aware these types of positions exist.

Apprentice System Operator

Apprentice System Operator

careers.pge.com

Here is the IBEW1245 contract if anyone is interested:

https://ibew1245.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2022-2025-Physical-Agreement-FINAL.pdf

 

[CKN]

Even with that kind of money in the area where PG&E is located you can't afford a house.....where you would want to live.
pages 2 through 9

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_MAPS_Service%20Area%20Map.pdf

 

[MVAR]

Vacaville isn't cheap but the wages will go up pretty quickly. My friend is a senior dispatcher there and makes >400/yr with overtime. It's plenty to live on.

 

[Skippy722]

I wish the utility here would do that, I’d be all over it…. They only want college grads with bachelors degrees for the same starting pay as what you posted though.

 

[sloinker]

I know some folks that came out of thermal to become dispatchers. Most dispatchers have a thorough understanding of switchyard operations and generational types and timed availability, both base and intermittent generation. There is supposed to be a gap between generation and end use dispatching per Nerc Cips. It got to a point where we would make generation availability at a certain threshold and rate of change and allow the disptcher to set rates. Good Luck to anyone eyeing this job. I imagine the learning curve is going to be vicious.

 

[MVAR]

I know some folks that came out of thermal to become dispatchers. Most dispatchers have a thorough understanding of switchyard operations and generational types and timed availability, both base and intermittent generation. There is supposed to be a gap between generation and end use dispatching per Nerc Cips. It got to a point where we would make generation availability at a certain threshold and rate of change and allow the disptcher to set rates. Good Luck to anyone eyeing this job. I imagine the learning curve is going to be vicious.

I came out of generation to transmission system operations. I'm currently a supervisor for water & power dispatchers (generation dispatch included here).

This position will not be dealing with gen dispatch or ramping units to control frequency. This position will be very heavy in voltage control, switching, building/processing clearances & responding to trouble. PG&E's system is so large they break the NERC TOP designation into two positions, TSO & Dispatcher. This is an apprentice position for TSO that will concentrate on the previously stated duties. The dispatcher will concentrate on system studies, CAISO OMS cards, etc....

 

[MVAR]

I know some folks that came out of thermal to become dispatchers. Most dispatchers have a thorough understanding of switchyard operations and generational types and timed availability, both base and intermittent generation. There is supposed to be a gap between generation and end use dispatching per Nerc Cips. It got to a point where we would make generation availability at a certain threshold and rate of change and allow the disptcher to set rates. Good Luck to anyone eyeing this job. I imagine the learning curve is going to be vicious.

Forgot to address you last point. Yes, the learning curve is going to be VERY steep for most. It's not impossible for someone studious & one that can stay calm but it's not going to be an easy program.

 

[Chris142]

Same company that brought us Erin Brokovitch.

 

[MVAR]

Same company that brought us Erin Brokovitch.

Yeah, they do have a very public history. PG&E is a company that used to be 15 separate utilities, each with their own switchyard designs, nomenclature & operating designs. They're a hodgepodge. Over the last decade they've spent billions to update their system but still have work to do.

SCE had the foresight, just post WW2, to design their 220kV "backbone" that the rest of their system is built off of when they changed from 50hz to 60hz in SoCal. PG&E didn't have that luxury.

 

[sloinker]

Yeah, they do have a very public history. PG&E is a company that used to be 15 separate utilities, each with their own switchyard designs, nomenclature & operating designs. They're a hodgepodge. Over the last decade they've spent billions to update their system but still have work to do.

SCE had the foresight, just post WW2, to design their 220kV "backbone" that the rest of their system is built off of when they changed from 50hz to 60hz in SoCal. PG&E didn't have that luxury.

What is SCE using for base load nowadays. They have closed down multiple natural gas units and I can't remember if there is a nuke left in SoCal. Rancho Seco in Norcal is all that I remember and I think it is SMUD. Can't all be Hydro,Wind,Solar. They buying base load off the grid?
BTW, I recently retired as an I&C electrician at a thermal plant here in Wyoming. It is impossible to find anyone with the credentials to step into these journeymen jobs. The fellas they do hire take years and years to get to speed and are more a burden than a help. Not a week goes by without some utility contacting me wanting to fill open jobs they can't fill. ConEdison in New York City is the most aggressive. No Thanks, I'm enjoying my retirement and if I was going back to work it would be in the Northwest at an IBEW represented entity. I like all overtime being double time. lol

 

[MVAR]

What is SCE using for base load nowadays. They have closed down multiple natural gas units and I can't remember if there is a nuke left in SoCal. Rancho Seco in Norcal is all that I remember and I think it is SMUD. Can't all be Hydro,Wind,Solar. They buying base load off the grid?
BTW, I recently retired as an I&C electrician at a thermal plant here in Wyoming. It is impossible to find anyone with the credentials to step into these journeymen jobs. The fellas they do hire take years and years to get to speed and are more a burden than a help. Not a week goes by without some utility contacting me wanting to fill open jobs they can't fill. ConEdison in New York City is the most aggressive. No Thanks, I'm enjoying my retirement and if I was going back to work it would be in the Northwest at an IBEW represented entity. I like all overtime being double time. lol

I only dispatch a few hydro stations in SCE’s territory & talk with those guys during training so I don’t know their total generation portfolio.

That said, there is only one nuclear plant remaining in CA & it’s Diablo Canyon. SCE decommissioned SONGS around 2013(causing havoc & the demise of their sister company Edison Mission who was left to hold the bag for SCE). Rancho Secco never really got going to begin with. PG&E also finished decommissioning & replacing the two small nuclear units in Eureka with multiple reciprocating piston units designed to island the north coast.

I came out of thermal plants. Steam turbines as well as combustion turbines. Many are decommissioned across the state. It’s the reason I’m in a different role with a NERC certification, job stability.

I hear you about finding qualified candidates. My employer can’t attract enough qualified people either. I get frustrated just having a “warm body” in one of the chairs that needs me to make their decisions for them. I’d fire over 1/2 of the dispatchers if I could but there wouldn’t be anyone to replace them as nobody applies I’d love to be out of CA as well but family commitments keep me here.

I still believe this PG&E posting is a great way for someone to earn some credit though. PG&E is known to have one of the best training programs in the nation & a difficult area to control. It’s widely considered throughout the industry that if you can operate PG&E’s system, you can operate anywhere. Hence the constant recruitment offers. If you can’t already tell, I have this program on my resume as well. It’s served me well but i left back in 2018.

Sorry for rambling, just woke up after final night shift of 6/12’s.

 

[Dave Hess]

Nice job posting.

Great money if someone can learn this trade.

 

[andrew_j]

I wish the utility here would do that, I’d be all over it…. They only want college grads with bachelors degrees for the same starting pay as what you posted though.

Reality is lots to learn and either having a strong technical program in high school/community college or bachelors can show you are capable of learning at least and committing to four years to something to learn it.

 

[MVAR]

Reality is lots to learn and either having a strong technical program in high school/community college or bachelors can show you are capable of learning at least and committing to four years to something to learn it.

During my apprenticeship we didn’t have a college grad make it. They either quit or were let go. That said, the college graduates were very arrogant entering the program & didn’t expect the amount of work they encountered

 

[Pew]

I wish the utility here would do that, I’d be all over it…. They only want college grads with bachelors degrees for the same starting pay as what you posted though.

ComED does do apprenticeships and they'll often hire non college grads who have a year of two of experience. They do have a habit of 'stealing' employees too.

 

[Dave Hess]

The older folks that are walking encyclopedias don’t like younger people with a piece of paper acting like they are smarter than them.

Thats a BIG No No in any industry.

 

[andrew_j]

The older folks that are walking encyclopedias don’t like younger people with a piece of paper acting like they are smarter than them.

Thats a BIG No No in any industry.

My relative a high school grad barely worked for Gillette the. Palmolive basically in production of shampoo and shaving creams.

His replacement at forced retirement at 55 was a chemical engineer with masters recent grad. She knew a ton more on certain things while lacking experience obviously on practical. They respected each others strengths in job transition taking 6 months.

 

[Pew]

The older folks that are walking encyclopedias don’t like younger people with a piece of paper acting like they are smarter than them.

Thats a BIG No No in any industry.

If neither one of them can teach and listen then they might as well be door greeters at walmart.

 

[MVAR]

If neither one of them can teach and listen then they might as well be door greeters at walmart.

There’s multiple roads on this one. My experience is many new college grads don’t have the personality profiles for operations. Edison Mission used personally profiles as a large part of their hiring to filter out people that would cave under the pressure of real time operations. They had more than one episode of an engineer turned operator curled up under the console at 0200 when all **** breaks loose & the lights go off & steam starts blowing out the safeties. I’ve personally ran into several newbies that were intelligent but FAR too sensitive for the position.

Personally, I tend to get along with grumpy old codgers (I’m 46 but grew up on the farm raised by WW2 vet). I also do well with most anyone that gives an honest effort & can take a bit of constructive criticism. I’ve seen these kids nowadays start crying during constructive criticism & not even a review or actual trouble. Then they tuned right around & tried to boss people around the next week.

My employees range from early 40’s to mid/late 60’s. I’d gladly hire a youngster if I could but I’ve never once seen one last, or even be reliable(under 35 at least). From what I’ve experienced, once accountability is placed they run. If a willing to learn, thick skinned, calm & intelligent young person applied for these positions, they’d be a VP of Operations by 45.

 

[Pew]

There’s multiple roads on this one. My experience is many new college grads don’t have the personality profiles for operations. Edison Mission used personally profiles as a large part of their hiring to filter out people that would cave under the pressure of real time operations. They had more than one episode of an engineer turned operator curled up under the console at 0200 when all **** breaks loose & the lights go off & steam starts blowing out the safeties. I’ve personally ran into several newbies that were intelligent but FAR too sensitive for the position.

Personally, I tend to get along with grumpy old codgers (I’m 46 but grew up on the farm raised by WW2 vet). I also do well with most anyone that gives an honest effort & can take a bit of constructive criticism. I’ve seen these kids nowadays start crying during constructive criticism & not even a review or actual trouble. Then they tuned right around & tried to boss people around the next week.

My employees range from early 40’s to mid/late 60’s. I’d gladly hire a youngster if I could but I’ve never once seen one last, or even be reliable(under 35 at least). From what I’ve experienced, once accountability is placed they run. If a willing to learn, thick skinned, calm & intelligent young person applied for these positions, they’d be a VP of Operations by 45.

Absolutely agree too. Experience is a priceless skill (looking at you, second lieutenants trying to tell a gunny what to do.) We hire a lot of folks straight out of college or have college interns from time to time and they've all been great, as same as our senior staff.

What I hate is people who do things they know they shouldn't do as a full grown adult (ie: take company vehicles on personal trips to the dispensary.)