Apple - A Message to Our Customers

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No need for any risks. Simply have Apple develop the allegedly needed software in house and use it on the one phone. Simple. Then give the data to the FBI.
Isn't that begging for chain of custody issues? Also, once the phone is unlocked, the FBI could reverse-engineer the firmware. Either way, this isn't really about this one phone. It's about the precedent. The idea that the FBI could force a company to make a broadly applicable security hack for its own devices is pretty chilling.
Spot on. This is not a precedent anyone wants to even THINK about setting.
 
This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...
 
When do you give all your passwords to the FBI, then? Would you also be perfectly happy to have your house searched by the police?
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
When do you give all your passwords to the FBI, then? Would you also be perfectly happy to have your house searched by the police?
That isn't what they're asking for...they're asking for access to this one, particular phone...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...
No, it's not. More than one person's life could be saved by yanking the freedom from arbitrary search and seizure completely and for everyone. Those lives don't make it worth it, either. Getting the data out of this phone in specific is a completely different matter than intruding upon the privacy rights of everyone out there. In a more broader sense, from a technological standpoint, this is the wonderful world of proprietary software. Do we believe Apple, or do we not? They are doing a lot of grandstanding here for a marketing position, not a moral position. Apple is only bucking because it's convenient for them. And, considering I cannot look at their source code, I do not trust that there is no back door in the first place. When I encrypt something, it isn't with a proprietary piece of software, and no company out there will have any power over it.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
When do you give all your passwords to the FBI, then? Would you also be perfectly happy to have your house searched by the police?
That isn't what they're asking for...they're asking for access to this one, particular phone...
No...they are asking for a back door into ALL of Apple's phones (and probably tablets)...which would render them, by definition, UNSECURE!
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...
That's how I feel.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
When do you give all your passwords to the FBI, then? Would you also be perfectly happy to have your house searched by the police?
That isn't what they're asking for...they're asking for access to this one, particular phone...
No, they are asking for a master key. I think Apple has said they are willing to open a single phone. They are not willing to divulge how or provide the details of how it's done. Once you hand code to another party, it's out of your control. No guarantee that the FBI or any other party or agency won't use that code or reverse engineer it to unlock any other phone.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
When do you give all your passwords to the FBI, then? Would you also be perfectly happy to have your house searched by the police?
That isn't what they're asking for...they're asking for access to this one, particular phone...
No, they are asking for a master key. I think Apple has said they are willing to open a single phone. They are not willing to divulge how or provide the details of how it's done.
I was under the impression they were asking for access to only this one phone. I agree, Apple should not provide them access to everyone's phones, nor should they be given the knowhow to access everyone's phones, but they should open this particular phone without showing the FBI how to do it...
 
Quote: I was under the impression they were asking for access to only this one phone. I agree, Apple should not provide them access to everyone's phones, nor should they be given the knowhow to access everyone's phones, but they should open this particular phone without showing the FBI how to do it... I agree totally. I don't know all the particulars of this issue and I'm generally opposed to overzealous 'government' but if we are only talking about access for the phones of the MASS MURDERERS of San Bernadino, then I'm for it...
 
If they crack one phone they're going to be expected to crack any other phone some agency or country wants them to. First terrorists then drug dealers then texting while driving. You people talking about "this one time" need to give examples of where governments have ever stopped with one. The income tax was started because it only targeted a few people. See how that worked out.
 
The camel's nose under the tent saying is maybe thousands of years old. It's proven correct every time. And people still don't get it.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
This thread is overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining people's privacy. While I am also concerned about people's privacy, if one person's life could be saved by unlocking this phone, that is more important than privacy...
No it's not. That is purely your opinion. Some of us would rather fight, than to have our rights trampled on by the gov't. just my $.02..
 
If you guys feel so strongly about privacy then we need to get rid of the TSA too. It's inconvenient and intrusive for them to go through our stuff and patt us down. Heck, let's get rid of the FBI and CIA . all you guys need is someone to force abortions on women and we'll have the Freeman utopia you've all been dreaming of.
 
What a load of baloney. Apple has it's [censored] made on the cheap in China while charging everyone a premium for it. The FBI should just go to the chinese - undoubetedly they know everything about these devices and how to get into them. If they were really worried about people's privacy they would be mnaking the phones in a place they have absolute control over. Apple's only valid legal argument is whether or not they can be made to produce something that does not ( by their claims ) exist. I don't believe them. I believe it does exist or can be readily made to exist. They are going to have a real tough time with that magistrate Judge over this. The phone belongs to that california county, as best I recall - with the user dead, and the county owning it - apple has no standing to raise privacy concerns - they have no dog in that fight.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Isn't that begging for chain of custody issues?
Probably not, but chain of custody is only applicable to evidence to be used in a court proceeding. If they want the information for intelligence value or some other purpose, it's irrelevant. In any event, chain of custody is not Apple's call - it's for the Judge.
 
If the back door is only accessible by warrant I dont see the issue. With a warrant they have many ways to watch you, this is a minor one. I dont think they are asking for unfettered access.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
The FBI should just go to the chinese - undoubetedly they know everything about these devices and how to get into them.
Factories just make what they're told to make, to spec. I doubt anyone on the hardware manufacturing side knows much at all about the software side.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If the back door is only accessible by warrant I dont see the issue. With a warrant they have many ways to watch you, this is a minor one. I dont think they are asking for unfettered access.
Not under the patriot act. FBI conducted warrantless investigations into peoples data, banking, and communication and phone records over 190K times so far. They also conducted over 3900 warrantless searches of homes and businesses. The Fisa court only reject like .3 percent of all requests. Its a drone court system. They were too busy looking at American citizens and missed these terrorists. UD
 
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