Appears to be a Contradiction to Me

Not open for further replies.
Jun 10, 2002
Chattanooga, TN
I just perused the UOA forum and realized that about 99% of all the posts had OCIs of less then 7500 miles, most under 5000 miles.

This board is educational and it appears that most participants are here to not only get the best protection for their engines but save the environment and create less hassle and work for themselves in the long run. Yet, 99% of the participants cannot seem to break the 3000-5000 mile OCI habit. They just don't seem to trust the numbers being posted.

Why bother to purchase a high cost synthetic and then change it out at 5000 miles. We know (shown countless times on the UOA board) a good dino will easily go 3000-5000 so why waste the money.

Just seems like a huge contradiction to participate on this baord yet not have it influence the OCIs that one is using.

Old habits and beliefs truly are hard to change. However, it also appears that 99% of us are willing to go with Auto-RX, based upon the participants opinions on this board (which in theory is riskier then a longer OCI as it is an additive basically only promoted on this site)yet these same participants will not extend the OCI on their engines.

I just do not understand!

Go back and calculate the average OCI for the folks using Amsoil and you'll find a different story ....

The last time I did this, the average OCI for the Amsoil Series 2000/3000 oils was > 12,000 miles. That's why you see these comments about "inconsistent" results from folks who don't understand how to evaluate data ....

I agree, and I'm guilty of this myself, although my car isn't really capable of going over 10k miles on any oil. There is one case in which I would drain a good synthetic oil out in 5k miles and that is in a high performance car where your really beating on it. I'd then sample and take if from there. I think many people look at oil as being a very minimal expense. I also don't like what the oils leave behind so pushing drains out to far in some cars is not a good idea either.
I think the curiousity factor weighs heavily here. Most of us who have discovered UOA's via this forum are excited to learn just what is really going on inside their engines. For some folks 10,000 miles is almost a year's worth of driving. Who wants to wait that long to see a report? And who wants to push their luck only to find out they kept the oil in the crankcase too long?

Another factor I've noticed with UOA's posted on BITOG is the vast majority seem to be first time analysis or at the most have only had 2-3 UOA's done. There aren't too many members posting extensive trend data from UOA's. I think everyone will agree that it takes a few UOA's to confidently determine what extended OCI works best in an engine. The only people who seem confident with longer OCI's right off the bat are Amsoil users but that's due to the strong support and encouragement Amsoil users receive from the mfr and the MLM dealers. That support does not exist from any other oil company so people are naturally going to be more cautious with OCI's.

Extended OCI's are all about confidence. Confidence in the specific oil you use, confidence in the UOA you purchase, confidence you are doing the best you can for your engine.

I don't think UOA's are going to change old habits but they can build confidence that the vehicle owner is using a good quality product. From there its a personal values judgement. Everyone has their own comfort level.
Spector-I agree with you 100%. This is precisely the reason that I gave up long ago trying to change folks minds about synthetics and longer drain intervals. Now consider that folks on this board are presumably open minded and participate in the UOA's. And as you pointed out they come right back with UOA's of less than 5K miles. I certainly am not criticizing this action. But as you mentioned old habits die hard. It is more than obvious that Jiffy Lube will enjoy success in the forseeable future
. I think I'll buy Jiffy Lube stock as soon as I get off of this board

I believe though that two other factors come into play here. One is that folks here generally want the best for their vehicle. Oil is important to them and they reason that frequent changing with a good oil is important. I also think that many are so anxious to get results back from the latest type of oil as a source of entertainment and curiosiot (I confess that I fall in this catagory). Then switch to another oil way before the oil is done in hopes of finding a "Holy Grail Oil" for their vehicle.

I am extremely tempted to change more frequently for the last reason cited. But I have always been frugal with money and I just disciplin myself
. BTW-I now hate changing oil

You have definately generated a "food for thought" topic.

TooSlick- I think the difference in Amsoil users is that they actively bought into the Amsoil concept of less frequent oil changing bc they either didn't like changing oil, or felt that Amsoil was a superior product and was made to go the distance. In short I think that Amsoil users are perhaps a little more daring-they would have been the folks that 150 years ago traveled West in search of a better life.
I just think they are a different breed of people

I have NO problems getting my engineer/scientist friends to run extended drains of 10k-15k miles. Of course I have a file folder with oil analysis results going back 10 years and have been using the Amsoil since 1978. Most of my job is education - once I get folks to use Amsoil I have at least 95% repeat customers ....

I'd agree that Jim Jones could learn a thing or two from Jiffy Lube about mind control ....

Spector - Am I correct in assuming that you factored out of your analysis the short OCIs that were done for warranty purposes, or to accomodate a known sludge engine?

Also, in bretfraz's line of thought, it may be that once people do a few UOAs and establish a pattern, they actually adopt a longer interval, stop doing UOAs, and quit posting on the board. That goes against conventional wisdom about how hard it is to change behavior, but that is still one possible explanation.

[ December 03, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
Guilty as charged. But this was before the BITOG enlightenment. Ok, ok, still did a couple of RL OCIs at 5K out of habit, but now realize that things have gotten so much better, oilwise, now than they were even as recent as 5 years ago.

I've changed my thinking (thanks to alot of the folks here) and am warming to the practice of longer drains. Hey, until I got here, I never heard of Schaeffer's, now its in the sump. And will probably stay there for 8-9K hopefully. I also ran Chevron Supreme out to 5K. Never would have done that prior to the education.

So in my case its not so much a contradiction as it is the slow learning curve I'm on

Originally posted by TooManyWheels:
Spector - Am I correct in assuming that you factored out of your analysis the short OCIs that were done for warranty purposes, or to accomodate a known sludge engine?

No, not a true scientific analysis performed.

Why is it though that the board members are so willing to try the RX treatment over extended OCI when overall additives of any kind have been hammered on many boards, media etc. yet the participants here seem to jump on this based upon the reports, comments, data supplied by other board users that have had success with it. Yet this same type of data supplied by board members on extended OCIs does not sway them. They will try the additives (which could be in theory) much more harmful then an extended drain to see the results. (RX, LC, FP, etc)

Guess that is for the psychologist
I fall in the category of 'still in warranty'. Both my vehicles are new '03 models, one with 12k mile and the other with 8k miles. I've been burned by a car company not backing their product before so I'm not taking any chances. My Mazda B4000 calls for 5000 as regular duty and 3000 for severe duty. I'm pushing the 5000 with M1 5w30. I drive light country roads and mild city 21 miles one-way so I should be able to back my regular duty OCI if I every have a problem with Mazda claiming I should be doing severe duty changes. My wife's Mazda MPV calls for 5000 severe duty and 7500 regular duty. I'll admit, I'm doing 5000 OCI on it too with M1. I'm switching from 5w30 to 0w20 because it just doesn't seem to run the same on 5w30 as it did on Motorcraft 5w20. Starts harder too. I'm changing this week and see how the starts go. After warranty I may up the interval but as you said, old habits die hard.
I ran 7K-10K drains for years but just recently started doing oil anaylsis to see if what I was doing really made sense. I think there are a few here who'd like find what they consider is an optimum combination of oil/OCI for their vehicle and driving conditions. Once more people resolve that you might see a few more 10K+ mile UOA's...
Spector writes:

"I just perused the UOA forum and realized that
about 99% of all the posts had OCIs of less than
7500 miles, most under 5000 miles."

The owners manual and factory service manual for
my current vehicle states that the basic OCI
is every 7500 miles, or every six months, which
ever comes first, with oil filter changes every
other oil change.

But, I'll keep reading down the page.

It also says:

"If you drive mostly short distances or if you
operate the vehicle in dusty areas or under
predominantly stop and go traffic conditions, or
when temperatures remain below freezing for
extended periods of time, the engine oil should
be changed more frequently."

The above statement clearly requires the owner to
make a judgment call.

I change the oil every 5000 miles which works out
to about twice a year using Chevron Supreme multi
weight. At 240,000 miles, I have no oil related
issues. Was the vehicle manufacturer wrong? I
don't think so.

My vehicle sees a fair amount of time at idle,
and a fair amount of time in stop and go traffic
and has it's share of short trips. (under 10
miles) As an engineer and an ex autotech with
4 years of factory service training myself, 5,000
miles is the magic number for me. I don't
consider it excessive, nor do I feel the need to
second guess or re-engineer what has all ready
been established through extensive research by the
engineers who designed my car. (unless they
change their current written reccomendations
through a published Technical Service Bulletin)
My used oil is always recycled.


Originally posted by Bill:

Are Auto-RX users having problems when using this product?

Just the opposite is happening. Many are getting better running and clean engines. I have oil analysis before Auto-Rx and after analysis to show my engines love the Auto-Rx.

I'm with 72sub. I'm looking for the Holy Grail oil for my truck. Phenominal gas mileage, smooth idling, tons of power, superior sold flow properties as well as heat protection/disapation are all things that I care about in an oil. So I've frequently bounced around with oils.

However I've gone from a diehard 3K changer (on synthetic) to 5-6K changer. I know its not an "extended darin" but bare with me as I progress.

Originally posted by Bill:
Spector,Are Auto-RX users having problems when using this product?

Not at all. My point was that individuals seem very easily persuaded to try this cleaning agent based upon the data expressed on this board but with similar praise for extended drains few seem headed in that direction.
This is going to sound a bit "out there", but since I found this site I'm spending way too much time thinking about lubrication. In fact, I have the next three years mapped out so that I can go through GC, M1, Pennzoil dino and Schaeffer's in my family's three cars (each going through at least two consecutive runs on the same vehicle).

Until I can establish through UOA, something I didn't consider until finding this site, that the first run is okay will I extend the OCI to 7,500 miles+.

To each his own, but we're all hopefully moving quickly (or slowly) to expand our comfort zone in this regard.
I think as the years go by, we'll slowly see more and more people extending their intervals.

Like a few people have mentioned so far, there is definitely a big enjoyment out of seeing your UOA results, so this pushes a lot of people to drain and sample the oil earlier, especially if they are switching oils.

I'm guilty of this myself.
Not open for further replies.