Appears to be a Contradiction to Me

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quote:

Originally posted by Chumley:
I change the oil every 5000 miles which works out to about twice a year using Chevron Supreme multiweight. At 240,000 miles, I have no oil related issues. Was the vehicle manufacturer wrong? I don't think so. 5,000
miles is the magic number for me. I don't
consider it excessive,


I think the issue with Spector is that many of the 5K oil changes are done with relatively expensive synthetics.

I think that 5K miles for the Chevron is a reasonable number. I'm planning on going exclusively with the Schaeffer's blend (away from Mobil 1) I will sample my first batch at about 7K miles and I am quite comfortable with that number. Were I using the Chevron 5-6K miles would be my first analysis.
 
I test at 7000mi intervals and change at 9000mi intervals. I'm sure there are lots of other people who don't change oil at sample time.
 
[/qb][/QUOTE]I think the issue with Spector is that many of the 5K oil changes are done with relatively expensive synthetics.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

And quite a few of those even ranging to 7500 miles have burned 1-3 quarts from what I've seen so it makes me wonder if the owners is saying " what's the cost effectivenes of this? " and just taking a curious look through anaylsis before reverting back to mineral oils.
 
Spector extended drain is a relative term. If someone grew up changeing at 1800-2500 miles like I did then 5000-7500 mile is an extended drain. I also think alot of people are under warrnaty or extended warranty and they require routine oil changes at on one of two schedules.

I can tell you right now you would have to sue someone to get any warranty engine work performed on a car or truck if you admitted to doing 25,000 mile oil changes.

Right now I plan on changeing every 6 months or 7500 wichever comes first. THis is strictly to comply with warranty requirements.In a perfect wourld dealers and Car manufactures would not look for any chance they could find to deny you warranty coverage but in this world they do!!!
 
quote:

extended drain is a relative term

Good point. In my car, TBN is down to 3 or 4 at only 5 or 6k miles. If the sump was bigger, I'd feel better about extendind drains. Not to mention I like to keep my engine as clean as possible and regardless of the oil, All oils will leave deposits and sludge precursors behind as Terry has stated. I like my engines to perform at their peak.
 
Spector;

The way I see it, the BITOG folks are enthusiasts who are by and large looking for 2 things:

1) Oil that is performing nearly as well at the end of an OCI as it is at the beginning;

2) Engines that appear and perform "like new" for hundreds of thousands of miles.

(Neither of these desires, by the way, are IMO prerequisites for responsible vehicle ownership but that's a different issue).

So they are much more likely to jump onboard with an elixir (AutoRX) purported to accomplish these two goals than extend intervals (at the perceived risk of endangering these goals) based on the same (or lower) quality of data. Just human nature I think.
 
Spector, I agree.

In the case of my Nissan Frontier, I wouldn't dare go over 5k since this engine beats up oil badly, you know, the small sump, high power density syndrome.

Part of the problem I think, other than testing oils to find the best oil/engine combo, is that there are no solid wear numbers to compare to, we simply have to trend everything.

In some peoples minds, 10 ppm of Fe wear in 3k is unacceptable.
 
Nel-

You just described me LOL..It's time for oil rehab. I spend wayyy to much time reading and thinking about it, let alone looking for good bargains. But back to topic, based on what I've read here and the results of what used oil has looked like upon analysis, I have my vehicles setup for the winter and extended drains using synthetic and feeling quite confident about it. I changed them in early October and won't do them again until March at the earliest. I'm guessing 5-7k per vehicle.
rolleyes.gif
 
I am awaiting my First UOA for my Toyota Lancruiser, the interval was 5400 miles with Mobil 1 0w-40. I am interested in doing extended intervals but changed this oil short of the 6500 I was going to run it do the impending arrival of a baby. Assuming this Analysis is okay, I will push the next interval out to 8000 or so. I should note that while the truck has an 8 quart capacity, it also sees a great deal of in town, short distance driving which is why I didn't push farther on the first UOA. If all I didn was drive it on the freeway, I would run 10K mile intervals and not worry about it.

Cary
 
The main thing that scares me abut extending well beyond 5,000 miles, at least for me, is the fact that I drive mt car about 3 miles, shut it off, then drive maybe another 3-5 miles several hours later. All this in sub 30 degree weather on a regular basis. Wouldn't extending beyond 5,000, heck, or even 4,000 miles, contirubute to excess fuel and moisture dilution, which would eventually just murder my motor? I would feel more comfortable extending to say, 5,000 or 6,000 miles in short trip driving in warm weather, but cold weather? I'm scared
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quote:

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
I would feel more comfortable extending to say, 5,000 or 6,000 miles in short trip driving in warm weather, but cold weather? I'm scared
tongue.gif


Can't say I blame you. Mobil 1 especially is very prone to high Iron. In your climete I think that GC 0W-30 would be a good choice if you want to extend. But perhaps with your climate you could consider the Pennzoil 5W-30 and just change it out at 3-4K or so. If changing oil is no hassle for you that might be the way to go.

Now Mobil 1 ran a test some years ago where they ran a vehicle 6 years without a change-but makeup essentially changed out the oil in that time period. The Iron was above 400 ppm but no degredation was found
rolleyes.gif
Unfortunately I don't have quite as much faith in Mobil 1 as I once had
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There are a few of us here who are doing UOAs from a racing/performance perspective as opposed to a longevity/economy point of view. I started my OCI at 5k with Redline 5w-40 on a heavily boosted/raced 1.8T VW. I have gradually increased both the power of the engine and the amount it is tracked, while maintaining the same OCI. In this way, I am defacto increasing my drain interval, no?
 
I'm willing to bet that alot of the synth users still do twice a year oil changes (one for the winter and one for the spring) unless you drive over 10k miles in six months, you'll probably see a UOA with 7500 miles especially from our fellow posters who live where it is brutally cold.
 
Apparently I'm a "contrarian" ......I've always beliieved in synthetics and extended drain intervals. My mother's Citation 2.8 was given away at 220,000 miles having no more than annual Mobil 1 oil changes and the normal interval filter changes and top offs.

The only factor that stopped me from an EXTENDED drain interval was convenience. My house has a fleet of operating automobiles. My wife has a 50 mile round trip commute ...I have a 40 mile. We work different shifts and different days (no one seems to figure out why ..after 23 years ..we still seem "in love"
grin.gif
) and the kids hammer the stuff around town. For me it was "take a number for better service" in the vehicle maintenance dept. This could, btw, be the reason for the OCI not being so extended. That is, I don't know of anyone who has too much time on their hands and most things like this need to be "scheduled". That is, "I want to get the Civic squared away for the winter this weekend" ..since vehicle maintenance is not our only task in life ...just a worthwhile distraction that is required to facilitate it. Hence it may be a choice of a 5k interval ...or 10k interval ..throw in some operator specific severe duty ...???????

...but...

Then I did a UOA on a 9-10k OCI in the wife's TJ ahd found, in spite of the 9+ quart capacity, that the TBN was all but shot. This had me re-evaluate my false confidence in XDI. Perhaps I'm being too critical. After all, it was still okay at that mileage ..but I expected better and was dismayed with the performance.

As I said, I'm a contrarian when it comes to some things. I never buy into the standard "old rule" 3k/3m dogma that sooooooooooooooooooo many "convinced" people adhere to. This convention of thought feels more like being led by the nose to the slaughter (as in sheep). I would prefer to build a superior mouse trap and scoff at the sheep and their predictable behaviors.


I too am looking for the "Holy Grail" ..or my staff that I can raise and part the waters (and no excuses)
grin.gif
.
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
-*-*
In some peoples minds, 10 ppm of Fe wear in 3k is unacceptable.


We need to talk about this more!
1. It IMO matters what all the other metals look like
2. It matters more how it fits in the trend than the snapshot today
2. IMO it matters on the WHOLE volume
so if 30 PPM is considered bad at 5K it is bad at 10K or 3K, or maybe my thinking is backward, but Thats How I think.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
so if 30 PPM is considered bad at 5K it is bad at 10K or 3K, or maybe my thinking is backward, but Thats How I think.

Wear, for the most part occur evenly over time, at least I feel that is the best assumption. Thus, 30ppm of iron may be bad at 3k but at 10k very good. thus, 10ppm of iron at 3k, 20ppm at 6k would be perfectly acceptable to me. Of more importance is the trend. If you have three UOA that say 30 ppm of iron at 6k and the other metals are consistent with no apparent component failures that I say that this becomes the norm for that engine and the benchmark for future decisions on spikes etc.
 
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