I think the point remains that this is a financing deal to entice more buyers, even if it is remotely connected to GM, to sell more cars. All automakers lend to subprime borrowers and actually GM's competitors are making more of these loans. So if that is one's criteria for not considering a GM car than maybe they shouldn't consider any car if they want to be objective. Even the other makers are not kicking back something to offset the higher interest, I don't see how it matters. Interest rate or rebate, what real difference does it make?
Appalled and Dismayed (but not Shocked)
- Thread starter Tdbo
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.
So even though GM corporate has nothing to do with it, you still hate GM because of it? Riiighhht.
Ya know what. I expressed my dislike for an auto company based on my personal experiences with their product. I even reacted on information based on how it was presented by a salesperson.
However, it is pointless for me to say anything else because it merely would provide fodder for the trash fest this has become.
Go right ahead and keep on trashing away because for some of you your egos evidently need it. Don't do it for me because I am done with this thread and as such will not be positioned to fully appreciate your sarcasm and cheap shots, so go ahead and keep on pounding away. Really, go ahead do it for yourselves. Knock yourselves out. Attack a person because you feel that they wrongly attacked a corporation.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.
So even though GM corporate has nothing to do with it, you still hate GM because of it? Riiighhht.
Ya know what. I expressed my dislike for an auto company based on my personal experiences with their product. I even reacted on information based on how it was presented by a salesperson.
However, it is pointless for me to say anything else because it merely would provide fodder for the trash fest this has become.
Go right ahead and keep on trashing away because for some of you your egos evidently need it. Don't do it for me because I am done with this thread and as such will not be positioned to fully appreciate your sarcasm and cheap shots, so go ahead and keep on pounding away. Really, go ahead do it for yourselves. Knock yourselves out. Attack a person because you feel that they wrongly attacked a corporation.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
To try and weigh in a little more objectively on my perception of the original post that is generating so much heated discussion, and in taking a completely neutral position on the subject:
The OP indicated a bias against GM outright. He made no attempt to conceal it, but stated it as a given. FWIW, I think everyone here is biased in favor, or against, certain brands. Its human nature as we form our opinions based on perceptions and experiences and proceed accordingly (in developmental psychology, this is a referred to simply as 'learning' and is part of our evolutionary makeup). I don't fault him for admitting his bias up front; I much prefer it when someone gives that grain of salt up front rather than lacing their posts with hidden bias that they deny; or simply brand bash for the sake of brand bashing.
With that out of the way, he posted his own experience and how it made him feel as someone who has earned good credit. I don't see anything wrong with that. He is free to make his own choices, and if those choices are informed by such experience, so be it. This doesn't equate with simple brand bashing to me.
That he posted here allows others the opportunity to persuade him that his experience was influenced by erroneous data; if such is the case. And I see that as being more productive and on topic than the emotional responses and personal attacks aimed at him that this thread is filled with.
I personally dislike troll posts, and when I see one, I call it as I see it. The OP, based on my perception of his post, didn't seem to be doing it just for the sake of brand bashing or trolling. His experience would be relevant if he'd experienced it any company, or at least a subject for civilized discussion.
Unfortunately GM is a controversial subject these days. My own two cents (and hopefully nobody takes any offence as none is intended to GM or any members of this forum).
-Spyder
Spyder: Thanks to you, Johnny and Troy Built. The three of you are class acts.
To try and weigh in a little more objectively on my perception of the original post that is generating so much heated discussion, and in taking a completely neutral position on the subject:
The OP indicated a bias against GM outright. He made no attempt to conceal it, but stated it as a given. FWIW, I think everyone here is biased in favor, or against, certain brands. Its human nature as we form our opinions based on perceptions and experiences and proceed accordingly (in developmental psychology, this is a referred to simply as 'learning' and is part of our evolutionary makeup). I don't fault him for admitting his bias up front; I much prefer it when someone gives that grain of salt up front rather than lacing their posts with hidden bias that they deny; or simply brand bash for the sake of brand bashing.
With that out of the way, he posted his own experience and how it made him feel as someone who has earned good credit. I don't see anything wrong with that. He is free to make his own choices, and if those choices are informed by such experience, so be it. This doesn't equate with simple brand bashing to me.
That he posted here allows others the opportunity to persuade him that his experience was influenced by erroneous data; if such is the case. And I see that as being more productive and on topic than the emotional responses and personal attacks aimed at him that this thread is filled with.
I personally dislike troll posts, and when I see one, I call it as I see it. The OP, based on my perception of his post, didn't seem to be doing it just for the sake of brand bashing or trolling. His experience would be relevant if he'd experienced it any company, or at least a subject for civilized discussion.
Unfortunately GM is a controversial subject these days. My own two cents (and hopefully nobody takes any offence as none is intended to GM or any members of this forum).
-Spyder
Spyder: Thanks to you, Johnny and Troy Built. The three of you are class acts.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Spyder: Thanks to you, Johnny and Troy Built. The three of you are class acts.
Tdbo- way to play the victim. I don't know you from Adam, and I have no ego when it comes to GM nor preference for the brand (see my sig).
1. You made your post about politics by trying to associate the auto bailouts ("Government Motors") with the finance incentive you were given, which is used to attract buyers with poor credit ALL THROUGHOUT the auto industry. You have repeatedly failed to acknowledge this.
2. More than one person has posted evidence there is no such incentive from GM corporate. You have failed to acknowledge this.
3. You never asked the salesperson for the interest rate, nor did you perform the basic math to backup your statement that GM is "rewarding irresponsibility". If you calculate the total cost of the vehicle with the $1-2k rebate and interest rate for
Nobody is stroking their ego here. They are merely pointing out your mistake in relating dealer financing to a political stance against the bailouts and "Government Motors" and "rewarding irresponsibility". Your failure to admit this terribly obvious mistake has produced more people trying to explain it to you, some believing a more harsh attitude might get you to understand. The association you try to make, and seem to be so very upset about, makes no sense whatsoever. You fail to backup your assertion about "rewarding irresponsibility" with basic math that would easily contradict this statement. People are pointing that out in what you call "trashing" you. Try re-reading points 1-3 above and see if you can directly respond to any of it. Otherwise, please stop whining. One thing I've learned on BITOG is this: if you post [censored], then expect to be called out on it.
Spyder: Thanks to you, Johnny and Troy Built. The three of you are class acts.
Tdbo- way to play the victim. I don't know you from Adam, and I have no ego when it comes to GM nor preference for the brand (see my sig).
1. You made your post about politics by trying to associate the auto bailouts ("Government Motors") with the finance incentive you were given, which is used to attract buyers with poor credit ALL THROUGHOUT the auto industry. You have repeatedly failed to acknowledge this.
2. More than one person has posted evidence there is no such incentive from GM corporate. You have failed to acknowledge this.
3. You never asked the salesperson for the interest rate, nor did you perform the basic math to backup your statement that GM is "rewarding irresponsibility". If you calculate the total cost of the vehicle with the $1-2k rebate and interest rate for
Nobody is stroking their ego here. They are merely pointing out your mistake in relating dealer financing to a political stance against the bailouts and "Government Motors" and "rewarding irresponsibility". Your failure to admit this terribly obvious mistake has produced more people trying to explain it to you, some believing a more harsh attitude might get you to understand. The association you try to make, and seem to be so very upset about, makes no sense whatsoever. You fail to backup your assertion about "rewarding irresponsibility" with basic math that would easily contradict this statement. People are pointing that out in what you call "trashing" you. Try re-reading points 1-3 above and see if you can directly respond to any of it. Otherwise, please stop whining. One thing I've learned on BITOG is this: if you post [censored], then expect to be called out on it.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.
So even though GM corporate has nothing to do with it, you still hate GM because of it? Riiighhht.
Ya know what. I expressed my dislike for an auto company based on my personal experiences with their product. I even reacted on information based on how it was presented by a salesperson.
However, it is pointless for me to say anything else because it merely would provide fodder for the trash fest this has become.
Go right ahead and keep on trashing away because for some of you your egos evidently need it. Don't do it for me because I am done with this thread and as such will not be positioned to fully appreciate your sarcasm and cheap shots, so go ahead and keep on pounding away. Really, go ahead do it for yourselves. Knock yourselves out. Attack a person because you feel that they wrongly attacked a corporation.
I'm not really attacking you personally. And it wouldn't be just you. I can understand having a bad experience with products, absolutely and having that, let's say color your opinion of said company and it's products. I don't have a problem with that in the slightest. I feel the same way about brands of certain items. (Such as Seagate Harddisk drives, for example).
What I DO have a problem with, however is that you came on here and said that you went to the dealer to look at the products. You never mentioned what you thought of the products. Not once. Instead, you complained about the financing option, and them giving rebates to what is perceived to be sub-prime borrowers. Albeit with that would obviously be much higher interest rates. You acted like this was an outrage that GENERAL MOTORS, the entire company, would do such a thing.
But the problem is that it isn't GM that is doing it. The dealers control a lot of this kind of thing. That is why dealers in one area have certain sales and deals going on, and others elsewhere have completely different ones. The company as a whole does not generally set these kind of things, especially when it comes to financing. Yet you blame GM for doing it. But it is really the dealers, and it isn't JUST GM dealers. Dealers for everysingle automaker do this. Why? Because they are in the business of SELLING CARS. If the person can't make the payment, that doesn't come back on the dealer. No, they are there to sell cars and make a profit.
But even after these facts being pointed out, you still appear to feel that General motors is being fiscally irresponsible, and that the government somehow has it's hand in it (Because being owned the majority by the treasury).
Just my 2 cents.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.
So even though GM corporate has nothing to do with it, you still hate GM because of it? Riiighhht.
Ya know what. I expressed my dislike for an auto company based on my personal experiences with their product. I even reacted on information based on how it was presented by a salesperson.
However, it is pointless for me to say anything else because it merely would provide fodder for the trash fest this has become.
Go right ahead and keep on trashing away because for some of you your egos evidently need it. Don't do it for me because I am done with this thread and as such will not be positioned to fully appreciate your sarcasm and cheap shots, so go ahead and keep on pounding away. Really, go ahead do it for yourselves. Knock yourselves out. Attack a person because you feel that they wrongly attacked a corporation.
I'm not really attacking you personally. And it wouldn't be just you. I can understand having a bad experience with products, absolutely and having that, let's say color your opinion of said company and it's products. I don't have a problem with that in the slightest. I feel the same way about brands of certain items. (Such as Seagate Harddisk drives, for example).
What I DO have a problem with, however is that you came on here and said that you went to the dealer to look at the products. You never mentioned what you thought of the products. Not once. Instead, you complained about the financing option, and them giving rebates to what is perceived to be sub-prime borrowers. Albeit with that would obviously be much higher interest rates. You acted like this was an outrage that GENERAL MOTORS, the entire company, would do such a thing.
But the problem is that it isn't GM that is doing it. The dealers control a lot of this kind of thing. That is why dealers in one area have certain sales and deals going on, and others elsewhere have completely different ones. The company as a whole does not generally set these kind of things, especially when it comes to financing. Yet you blame GM for doing it. But it is really the dealers, and it isn't JUST GM dealers. Dealers for everysingle automaker do this. Why? Because they are in the business of SELLING CARS. If the person can't make the payment, that doesn't come back on the dealer. No, they are there to sell cars and make a profit.
But even after these facts being pointed out, you still appear to feel that General motors is being fiscally irresponsible, and that the government somehow has it's hand in it (Because being owned the majority by the treasury).
Just my 2 cents.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9IHMBBG4.htm
Looks like GM is buying AmeriCredit to bring financing back in house.
The stage is now set for a second bailout.
Quote:
GM North America President Mark Reuss said in June that GM gets 1 percent of its sales and leases from subprime buyers while Honda gets 20 percent due to better lending access.
Other sources have said that GM gets 4 percent of its sales from subprime loans, matching the industry average. In GM's defense, though, perhaps those sources weren't including leases in sales. According to AP, GM currently gets just 7 percent of its sales from leases compared with an industry average of 21 percent.
http://www.perrycountynews.com/content/gms-emphasis-subprime-loans-sends-wrong-message?quicktabs_2=1
Looks like GM is buying AmeriCredit to bring financing back in house.
The stage is now set for a second bailout.
Quote:
GM North America President Mark Reuss said in June that GM gets 1 percent of its sales and leases from subprime buyers while Honda gets 20 percent due to better lending access.
Other sources have said that GM gets 4 percent of its sales from subprime loans, matching the industry average. In GM's defense, though, perhaps those sources weren't including leases in sales. According to AP, GM currently gets just 7 percent of its sales from leases compared with an industry average of 21 percent.
http://www.perrycountynews.com/content/gms-emphasis-subprime-loans-sends-wrong-message?quicktabs_2=1
Last edited:
OP - I think you jumped the gun a bit by walking out. I feel the same anger as you do regarding rewarding deadbeats, but I'd wager anything that $2k rebate has some catch that makes it unattractive. Maybe they need to put down 65% and pay 20% interest and have a co-signer with 725 FICO? Or maybe it's a useless rebate because someone with low FICO won't even qualify for the loan. Or maybe the dealer factors in the rebate to the price of the car, selling it for $2k more than normal. The rebate is likely just bait to get subprime buyers in.
I wouldn't get too hot over this. Go back and negotiate with them if you like the car
I wouldn't get too hot over this. Go back and negotiate with them if you like the car
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I agree with the original poster. My immediate disgust would have made me walk immediately. For years I have refused to do business with any dealer that advertises additional discounts for college graduates, usually $500. I also avoid dealing with one who, for example, advertises o% interest for a certain length of time, or, say, $5000 rebate if not financed.
There is too many dealers out there to have deal with one using deceptive advertising.
What's wrong with the big $5k rebate or 0% financing option? Do the math to see if it works for you... Or would you rather just pay msrp all the time? Seems silly to me but YMMV.
The point is, the buyer using the 0% interest option is actually paying what is essence $5,000 interest.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I agree with the original poster. My immediate disgust would have made me walk immediately. For years I have refused to do business with any dealer that advertises additional discounts for college graduates, usually $500. I also avoid dealing with one who, for example, advertises o% interest for a certain length of time, or, say, $5000 rebate if not financed.
There is too many dealers out there to have deal with one using deceptive advertising.
What's wrong with the big $5k rebate or 0% financing option? Do the math to see if it works for you... Or would you rather just pay msrp all the time? Seems silly to me but YMMV.
The point is, the buyer using the 0% interest option is actually paying what is essence $5,000 interest.
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
I wouldn't get too hot over this. Go back and negotiate with them if you like the car
Re-reading the thread several times, I don't even see any evidence he liked the car. I think he just went in to feed his anti-GM bias.
I wouldn't get too hot over this. Go back and negotiate with them if you like the car
Re-reading the thread several times, I don't even see any evidence he liked the car. I think he just went in to feed his anti-GM bias.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Chrysler owns the former GMAC as a captive finance arm.
GM recently purchased their own captive finance arm, known now as Ally.
Ally is a cast-off from the old GMAC. I have an Ally savings account. As far as I know, Ally does not make loans. At least, you can't go on their web site and apply for a loan. Maybe they deal with car dealers exclusively?
Chrysler owns the former GMAC as a captive finance arm.
GM recently purchased their own captive finance arm, known now as Ally.
Ally is a cast-off from the old GMAC. I have an Ally savings account. As far as I know, Ally does not make loans. At least, you can't go on their web site and apply for a loan. Maybe they deal with car dealers exclusively?
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Chrysler owns the former GMAC as a captive finance arm.
GM recently purchased their own captive finance arm, known now as Ally.
Ally is a cast-off from the old GMAC. I have an Ally savings account. As far as I know, Ally does not make loans. At least, you can't go on their web site and apply for a loan. Maybe they deal with car dealers exclusively?
Yes and no...suffice to say it is a very convoluted situation. The linked wiki article is insufficient to properly describe the current relationship and how they got here.
Ally will take your app online, at least they did the last time I was on their site. I do know they are underwriting auto loans, I'm not sure if they have any plans to get back into the residential side of things, similar to the way GMAC was involved.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Chrysler owns the former GMAC as a captive finance arm.
GM recently purchased their own captive finance arm, known now as Ally.
Ally is a cast-off from the old GMAC. I have an Ally savings account. As far as I know, Ally does not make loans. At least, you can't go on their web site and apply for a loan. Maybe they deal with car dealers exclusively?
Yes and no...suffice to say it is a very convoluted situation. The linked wiki article is insufficient to properly describe the current relationship and how they got here.
Ally will take your app online, at least they did the last time I was on their site. I do know they are underwriting auto loans, I'm not sure if they have any plans to get back into the residential side of things, similar to the way GMAC was involved.
Hold on a minute...these rebate shenanigans are usually applied to the "manufacturers suggested retail" price shown on the window sticker (not inluding some fees and state taxes that raise the number a couple thousand more). $29K for this car?...after all the rebates you'd still be paying what?...$25-$26,000?...not much of a deal if you ask me. I have a 2008 Impala (which, by the way is a GREAT car...nary a problem with 63,000 miles on the clock). I bought it when it was a year old with 20,000 miles and paid less than HALF of what they're asking for that car. I'd look at some options before falling for the "rebate" trap. After the rebates the car will still be worth $5,000 less than you paid for it the minute you drive it off the lot.
- Status