Appalled and Dismayed (but not Shocked)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I call for a thread lock on this thread. Based on an assumption and nothing but a jumping point for a little GM bashing.

Or maybe the Mods could just change the Title of the Thread to..."Uninformed and Confused(but nothing New)"...or maybe..."Assumptions and Prejudices(based on Nothing)"
 
I agree with the original poster. My immediate disgust would have made me walk immediately. For years I have refused to do business with any dealer that advertises additional discounts for college graduates, usually $500. I also avoid dealing with one who, for example, advertises o% interest for a certain length of time, or, say, $5000 rebate if not financed.

There is too many dealers out there to have deal with one using deceptive advertising.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
http://www.cardealexpert.com/news-inform...-credit-scores/

First sub-prime mortgages, now sub-prime car loans....


I find it curious that your linked article just mentions GM.

The fact of the matter is that Honda and Toyota both loan to subprime buyers at a rate of around 20% of their total loans. After the BK GM was tied to loans almost entirely above subprime, they are merely trying to get back to the same level that the industry considers safe...and that level is right around 20%.

If the author had done some research they would have found that almost all the major players in the industry loan to subprime lenders at nearly the same rate. As it is, they conveniently ignore that fact and make it seem as if GM is courting this market beyond what others already do. GM's subprime loans for the last couple years have been less than 5% of their market, while Toyotas is at around 20%..why are these facts left out of that "informative" article?
 
The OP makes it out like GM is offering an extra 2000$ Incentive for people with poor FICO score which is untrue, one only needs to go to Edmunds and click on incentives and factory to dealer rebates to see what is what.

Why would an OEM give people with poor credit an extra rebate?? That is pure baloney. If anything they will pay higher interest and not qualify for a rebate in lieu of fianancing at higher interest rate since they are a higher risk.

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: Tempest
http://www.cardealexpert.com/news-inform...-credit-scores/

First sub-prime mortgages, now sub-prime car loans....


I find it curious that your linked article just mentions GM.

The fact of the matter is that Honda and Toyota both loan to subprime buyers at a rate of around 20% of their total loans. After the BK GM was tied to loans almost entirely above subprime, they are merely trying to get back to the same level that the industry considers safe...and that level is right around 20%.

If the author had done some research they would have found that almost all the major players in the industry loan to subprime lenders at nearly the same rate. As it is, they conveniently ignore that fact and make it seem as if GM is courting this market beyond what others already do. GM's subprime loans for the last couple years have been less than 5% of their market, while Toyotas is at around 20%..why are these facts left out of that "informative" article?
 
Government, eh? They bailed GM out, right? They bailed banks out, right? Could this scheme possibly be exploiting routes and means possessed by both organizations to the benefit of the whole gang?
 
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I agree with the original poster. My immediate disgust would have made me walk immediately. For years I have refused to do business with any dealer that advertises additional discounts for college graduates, usually $500. I also avoid dealing with one who, for example, advertises o% interest for a certain length of time, or, say, $5000 rebate if not financed.

There is too many dealers out there to have deal with one using deceptive advertising.

What's wrong with the big $5k rebate or 0% financing option? Do the math to see if it works for you... Or would you rather just pay msrp all the time? Seems silly to me but YMMV.
 
"For example, Honda Motor Co. gets 20 percent of its sales and leases from subprime buyers, he said. GM, on the other hand, gets only 1 percent because it can't access the money to loan to those customers."

"Subprime buyers make up a significant portion of the car buying market. About 16 percent of all new-vehicle loans written in the fourth quarter of 2009 were to customers with below prime credit, according to credit agency Experian."
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
This is all the rage around here right now in the dealer advertisements:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-dealers/suntrup-nissan/suntrup-nissan-misleading-fa-53c38.htm

Dealers offering $4K or $5K over KBB value.

http://www.suntrupnissan.com/MiscPage_16

This is one example, there are others.


I wanted to point out that while this may or may not be a rip-off (after all, who in their right mind would expect to get $5K above KBB for multiple vehicles if you were trading in two for one like it appeared the person complaining was going to do) it certainly gets folks thinking.

So depending on the vehicle you are buying, this might be a great deal. That's probably the case on a lower end Versa or Sentra, and they've specifically excluded the 1.6L Versa.

It's probably just an attempt to get folks financed by showing some insane amount of money on the trade to make it look like the customer made a down payment.

One has to look at invoice price minus any rebates and see if that that delta is greater or less than $5K.

And what about those who are not trading. If I walk in and say I don't have a trade and I want a Sentra 1.8L or whatever, with nothing but A/C cruise control, power windows and power locks. Is MSRP-$5000 less than Invoice - any rebates?

The bottom line is one cannot be emotional when it comes to car shopping. If you fall in love with the car, the dealer has an advantage. If you get indignant, you may walk away from a great deal.

My best advice is to take a neutral 3rd party who isn't going to fall in love with the vehicle and who understands math, so they can run the numbers with an unbiased mind.

After all, that's what the sales manager is doing for the salesmen. The saleman would give the car away to put up a number. The emotion of the win.

So take your own buying manager who is not emotionally involved in the process.
 
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Honda is not owned by US taxpayers....


I don't think GM or Chrysler own their finance arms anymore.

Now one can argue that this is the path to the next set of bank bailouts. However, I think both GM and Chrysler sold off their finance outfits before the government bailouts of the automakers.

Therefore, Neither GM nor Chrysler are financing cars right now, if I have my facts straight.
 
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Honda is not owned by US taxpayers....


And your point is??????

GM still has to compete with Toyota and Honda and if they are both carrying around 20% of their loans as sub prime, it behooves GM and Ford to explore similar measures. As I said above, it's pretty standard throughout the industry to carry some sub prime loans...you cant expect GM to carry next to none and still compete.

You do want your money back from GM, right?
 
Now that you've reminded me, I think I recall that.

So does Chrysler own the former GMAC or Cerebus? I could have sworn Cerebus bought it, but perhaps they let it go with Chrysler???

It's hard to keep up with everything. Thanks for the update.
 
Originally Posted By: ItsuMitsubishi
Government, eh? They bailed GM out, right? They bailed banks out, right? Could this scheme possibly be exploiting routes and means possessed by both organizations to the benefit of the whole gang?


*Bashes head against desk* OH MY GOD. Do the conspiracy theories NEVER END?
 
Exactly!
GM (or "Generous", as we used to call the company decades ago when I worked for GMAC), as well as Ford and Chrylser, have to survive in the same world as Toyota and Honda.
Toyota and Honda have ready access to capital with which to make loans to anyone they please, as well as a reputation, fair or not, for "quality".
The American companies now have only limited access to capital to lend, as well as a possibly undeserved reputation for "junk".
To survive, all of these companies need to move metal, and in a declining and highly competitive market, they and their dealers will do whatever they can to keep the units flowing to retail buyers, like any other business.
Incidentally, who got bailed out at GM and Chrysler?
Certainly not the equity holders, and not even most of the bondholders.
The real bailout is and was for those who were able to keep their jobs, as well as for those to whom the pension checks will keep flowing.
 
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I just got of the phone with the salesperson that I spoke with and asked him about what he called the "rebate" for those with poor credit. The only thing that he told me any different is that it is $1,500 instead of $2000. It actually is a combination of two different rebates. The first part is what he referred to as "Down Payment Assistance." To qualify for this, one would have to be considered as "D Tier" under what he called the old GMAC standards.This first part is $500 and is applicable for anyone w/ a FICO of 500 or less and can be applied on a new Cobalt, Cruze, Malibu, or Impala. To access this assistance, one must finance with Ally or Americredit (GMAC finance arms.) This loan would then qualify for a $1,000 rebate available because of financing with Ally or Americredit in lieu of the low APR loans.
There is the explanation I was given. It doesn't change my opinion much, if at all.



So even though GM corporate has nothing to do with it, you still hate GM because of it? Riiighhht.
 
To try and weigh in a little more objectively on my perception of the original post that is generating so much heated discussion, and in taking a completely neutral position on the subject:

The OP indicated a bias against GM outright. He made no attempt to conceal it, but stated it as a given. FWIW, I think everyone here is biased in favor, or against, certain brands. Its human nature as we form our opinions based on perceptions and experiences and proceed accordingly (in developmental psychology, this is a referred to simply as 'learning' and is part of our evolutionary makeup). I don't fault him for admitting his bias up front; I much prefer it when someone gives that grain of salt up front rather than lacing their posts with hidden bias that they deny; or simply brand bash for the sake of brand bashing.

With that out of the way, he posted his own experience and how it made him feel as someone who has earned good credit. I don't see anything wrong with that. He is free to make his own choices, and if those choices are informed by such experience, so be it. This doesn't equate with simple brand bashing to me.

That he posted here allows others the opportunity to persuade him that his experience was influenced by erroneous data; if such is the case. And I see that as being more productive and on topic than the emotional responses and personal attacks aimed at him that this thread is filled with.

I personally dislike troll posts, and when I see one, I call it as I see it. The OP, based on my perception of his post, didn't seem to be doing it just for the sake of brand bashing or trolling. His experience would be relevant if he'd experienced it any company, or at least a subject for civilized discussion.

Unfortunately GM is a controversial subject these days. My own two cents (and hopefully nobody takes any offence as none is intended to GM or any members of this forum).

-Spyder
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
A personal auto ownership history story to share
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
Boomer
R
Dealership Chain won't do Anything if over 10yr/200k
2 3 4
Replies
70
Views
6K
redhat
R
Anyone have any inside info for new ordered GM vehicle?
2
Replies
21
Views
3K
redhat
O
  • Locked
'18 Equinox: Whats New, Good, Bad, ...and Odd
2
Replies
34
Views
14K
oilpsi2high
T
  • Locked
Dental crowns: cost?
2 3
Replies
43
Views
12K
CT8
Back
Top Bottom