API vs ACEA

[Nikola]

I was searching through oil specs and I noticed that certain oil formulation never has strong API and ACEA standard. General trend is to reduce aging, deposits, oxidation, wear and pollution of catalysts but still they don't adhere to both at same level.

If you have SM oil it has only A3 B3 (B4) from 98, A3 B3 B4 C3-04 oil is either SJ or SL rated...

Is this because of the different market or because of the different requirements...

 

[FrankN4]

I don't know a great deal about the ACEA. I do know that the C3 has to do with emissions filters, especially engines with particulate filters. C3 has an upper phosphorus limit of around 900. It has a minimum HTHS of 3.5.

Amsoil has a 5W-40 that meets both SM and C3-04 and I think Valvoline may have more than one that meets both.

SM doesn't limit ZDDP or HTHS. ILSAC GF-4 sets such limits as well as mileage specifications. This keeps the HTHS down and the ZDDP down. Most commonly used American oils follow ILSAC. SM does set, shall we say, quality standards. The American market is primarily XW-30. XW-40 seems to be a European norm/standard.

 

[Rollins]

It`s the manufacturer sertification that matters...API ratings are almost irrelevant if you drive a euro car-first serch for a OEM approval,then ACEA ratings(which are more or less a compromise)..
Seems like you`re worried about the LM Synthoil 5w-40 in your SAAB 9-3...have a look at these documents:
http://www.jamesglass.org/JGA/2labor/Z_l...mmended_oil.pdf

http://www.strasseschweiz.ch/dcs/users/2/Buetehorn.pdf
(page 11)

I believe your engine calls for GM-LL-B-025 oil.
There is a restriction about using Mobil 1 0w-40 in V6 engine,in a 2.2 you can use 0w-40 or 5w-40...
LM has a gm-ll-b specific oil and this might be the trivial reason that they did not have the LM Synthoil Hi-Tech GM/Opel/Saab-certified...as there are similar(or lesser) performance oils from other manufacturers that are GM-LL-B-025 certified(say Esso Ultron,Mobil Synt S -Group III oils,SAE 5w-40)

Motul x-cess 8100(PAO),which I see as a counterpart to LM Synthoil,is GM-LL certified...and yeah,Motul do not offer a "opel-specific"oil

So it might be just a marketing reason...
Not certain whether your engine would tolerate a 30-weight oil..

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/medie...%205W-40_EN.pdf

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/medie...%205w30_EN.pdf
Frankly,I wouldn`t be worried...

 

[Nikola]

Thanks for the concern

I am not worried about my choice. I am even more convinced that Liqui(lubro)-Moly is excellent oil maker so i decided to put it in my other car Ford Puma(It was not available in US) which has 1.7 liter engine with 125 BHP and was made in cooperation with Yamaha. Few years ago I tried using Motorcraft formula E 5w30 semi synthetic and oil consumption went up and engine felt strange-noisy... Since then I don't trust factory recommendations because they don't have same objectives as we(I just want ultimate protection). I was using everything from Mobil 1, Motul X-cess, Castrol EDGE(early called TXT Softec) and any of those was way better than ford oil.

Also I love this engine because it breaks every oil around 5,6000 km and starts using it then at 6-7k hydraulic lifters start knocking for half a second when it starts in the morning. So I think it is a good benchmark for quality. And since I bought it I am trying to find favorite oil...

That is why I am looking in oil specs because when you read the whole group ant the back you can make some conclusions about it....

Back to the topic

I know I am starting from LM specs but they are perfect for analysis since they have many different types, something like Motul....
I saw some strange specs like I mentioned before A3/B3/B4/C4-04 but SL and it is Group III, then top of the range 100% PAO A3/B3/B4 but 98 why??? Then diesel oil 100% PAO but just CF not to mention B3/B4-98. Then their most expensive oil 0w-40 Full Synthetic B3, not B4 and only SJ.... And their oil with best friction/wear performance is Group II with moly, then group III, and last group IV Full Synthetic why???. Same with Motul ESTER oil (reason why they are famous) are SJ and not often recommended....

 

[Nikola]

Also FORD and GM in euro cars for some reason always require some 30wt Semi Synthetic oil or group 3, never top end. Strangely not even in their top cars witch worth way above topic that 100% synthetic is too expensive

 

[Rollins]

Nikola,
Have in mind that many of the online technical data sheets haven`t been revised for some time(especially those offered by online shops)-always look for a "revision date" at the bottom.And this still cannot guarantee that the data is 100%correct,as sometimes the`d correct the physical properties,and neglect the certifications...
You can even bump onto tds of some 5w-40 oils dating 10+years back that were PAO back then(now Gr.III).
Look at this pdf:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/medie...%200w-40_EN.pdf
API SJ/CF
SH/EC/CF
ACEA A3-98/B3-98
MB 229.1
However,the description of the same oil on the same site says:
ACEA A3-04/B4-04 ; API SM/CF
LIQUI MOLY advise this product for vehicles with the following specifications: BMW Longlife-98 ; Opel GM-LL-B025 ; MB 229.3 ; Porsche ; VW 502.00 / 505.00
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_1360.html
..see what I mean? There are numerous examples like this.
Secondly,the ACEA combined the A and B categories several years ago(2004) and introduced some new-whether they changed the pass/fail limits I do not know(regarding A3,B3and B4 cats),but probably you could find the older ACEA specs and make a comparison...
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
I think I have them somewhere,but not sure.
I am also not aware if there is any time limits concerning the ACEA categories(I know there is "expiry dates" on some OEM ones and the company has to apply again)...
So the most recent data you get from the label on the product-then check the oil company site-and don`t trust that much the oil stores online documents.
Regarding Ford categories-they keep to Gr.III oils -more here:
http://www.atiel.org/members/pdf_files/ACEA Stow.pdf
...what has always puzzled me is that they recommended 30weight HTHS3,5cPa...but that`s Ford...
Well,I hope this helps.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Nikola
Liqui(lubro)


The company's name is Liqui Moly. Their products are commonly named Lubro Moly something.

 

[Nikola]

Here is Liqui, in US Lubro

Rollins >> thanks