ACEA rating questions.

Tourist · Nov 3, 2005

Hi. I don’t quite understand some of these ACEA oil rating and hope someone here can clear thing up for me. Thanks in advance.

Assuming 2 oils with these rating with same viscosity.

Oil-1 has API SM/CF ACEA A3-98/B3-96/B4-98 DaimlerChrysler MB 229.1 Volkswagen VW 502.00 / 505.00

Oil-2 has API SL/CF SL/CF SL/CF ILSAC GF-3 - - ACEA A3-02 A3-02/B3-98 A3-02/B3-98 DaimlerChrysler - MB 229.1 MB 229.1 Volkswagen - VW 501 / 505 VW 501 / 505

Questions are:
Which is the better oil?
What’s the difference between A3-98 and A3-02?
Is A5 an even better grade?

AndyH · Nov 3, 2005

quote:

"What’s the difference between A3-98 and A3-02?"

I believe the two-digits after the A3 indicate the year ('98' = '1998', etc.) Without knowing more than that, I'd assume that the newer spec would be the better spec, but I could be totally off-base.

quote:

"Is A5 an even better grade?"

Info on the ACEA ratings:

quote:

A/B: gasoline and diesel engine oils

A1/B1
Oil intended for use in gasoline and car + light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPas.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

A3/B3
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.

A3/B4
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and direct injection diesel engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

TallPaul · Nov 3, 2005

Out of the listings AndyH posted, A3 is the most robust. IIRC, A3 has a minimum high temperature / high sheer (HTHS) viscosity greater than 3.5. As the post states A1 and A5 are both lower HTHS viscosity.

yannis · Nov 3, 2005

web page

Tourist · Nov 4, 2005

Hi. I too thought that the ** behind the A3-** indicates the year but not sure. Thanks for confirming it. And I suppose the newer the better?

But the question is, I couldn't quite understand what's written about the A3 and A5. So is A5 better the A3?

Thanks.

TallPaul · Nov 4, 2005

It is kind of confusing. Seems from that web page that A5 is superior for fuel economy and length of OCI, but IMO it is not superior in all ways as the A3 has a higher HTHS.

Tourist · Nov 4, 2005

Hi Paul. May I ask what's OCI and HTHS? To be more specific, I am actually looking for a better oil for my Renault Clio II 1.2L SOHC engine for extended drain usage. Thanks.

moribundman · Nov 4, 2005

I believe an A5-rated oil is more difficult to make than an A3-rated oil. One of the Motul sites lists A5 as the highest level of oil performance. That said, you are comparing apples and oranges. An A2-rated oil would not be a good choice in an engine that requires an A3-rated oil. On the other hand, and A3-rated oil can safely be used in an engine that requires A2-rated oil, but the oil change interval has to be reduced.

What oil spec(s) does the Clio manual list? What's the proper oil change interval for that type oil?

TallPaul · Nov 4, 2005

HTHS = High temperature / high sheer

OCI = Oil change interval

Tourist · Nov 4, 2005

Hi moribundman. Now that's the confusing part. According to the Proton Savvy that uses the ClioII D4F 1.2L engine, all it says is to use SAE10W30 or equivalent and "Service SJ" or higher and OCI @10,000km & oil filter @20,000kmfor in the hot tropic. I reckon it would be better to use an ACEA oil instead of API rated one for the simple fact that D4F are European. And if price aren't that much different, would a A5 be a better choice then a A3?

And thanks Paul for the explanation.

Razl · Nov 4, 2005

From what I've read, I interpret A5 as a hybrid of A1 and A3. Specifically, it provides the low friction and low emmissions features found in an A1 that is compatible in high performance engine that prior to A5, would need to use A3.

Razl · Nov 4, 2005

Tourist, since the manual is specs SAE 10W30 SJ+, I would feel 100% confident using any 0W/5W/10W-30 SJ+ that was ACEA A5 approved

It looks like all of Mobil's M1 XW-30s meets both ratings (SAE and A5), but not A3? Hmmm. Now GC and Valvoline Synthetic MaxLife XW-30 meet A3.

Thinking back on my previous post, I'm think "compromise" might have been a better word instaed of "hybrid". I'm not convinced A3 is a more durable oil, rather an enviromental-friendly high perf oil.

"Yes waiter, I'll just take a cup of European CAFE to go, please."

Big O Dave · Nov 4, 2005

Here's the actual ACEA document that thoroughly explains all of their ratings. It is a pdf file, but for some reason it comes up as an "unknown file type," so you'll have to specify Adobe Reader as the program to open it.

ACEA Ratings/Specifications

moribundman · Nov 5, 2005

I agree with Razl that if 10w30 is recommended for that engine, an A5-rated oil should work fine.

I do not agree with Razl when he says A3 is more of an environmentally friendly oil. A3-rated oil are not eaxctly low SAPS, so they aren't that "green."

I'd use an ACEA A3 or C3 rated oil in the Clio. Something like Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w30 or any VW 504/507, BMW LL'04, or MB229.31 rated oil. They are all 5W-3o, they are environmentally friendly (medium SAPS), and yet they have an HTHS of 3.5. They are also capable of extended drain.

[ November 05, 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

Tourist · Nov 5, 2005

Hi. So the answer I got from you people is that A3 and A5 can both be used. Thanks.

But one of my original question was, which is better, A3 or A5 if given a choice?

Over here, I can get A3-98 & A3-02 easily but hasn't seen A5.

Big O Dave · Nov 5, 2005

Tourist, take a look at the pdf file that I posted a link to, and then you'll know as much about ACEA as anyone else around here.

In it, you'd see that A5 is a combination of A1 and A3. A1 emphasizes fuel economy and A3 emphasizes protection. Supposedly, A5 is the best of both. There are a bunch of specifications listed to delineate each rating, so you can determine for yourself which fits your needs most closely.

Personally, I'd choose A3, because it is focused on uncompromised engine protection, and I believe that A5 would be compromised in that area to achieve better fuel economy.

Having said that, there are others here who are bonified lubrication experts and they can tell us whether the goals of engine protection and fuel economy are mutually exclusive pursuits, when it comes to oil design.

You probably can't go wrong with either A3 or A5, but I am one who puts protection first.

Tourist · Nov 5, 2005

Hi Dave. I am not technical savvy and couldn't quite understand the actual technical data presented in that pdf. Anyway, you have given me the essence of what's on it now. I reckon I will stay with A3 for the reason you stated.

The main reason why I was asking what I asked was because the required car service center only uses semi-synthetic 10W30 A3 rated for the 10,000km OCI. I was thinking whether I have to use fully synthetic A5 rated oil for the long OCI but at much higher cost. Since A3 "may" actually give better protection, I can live with the poorer fuel economy.

Thanks again.

Big O Dave · Nov 5, 2005

You are

!

Razl · Nov 5, 2005

Mori, my A3 statement didn't make sense., I meant to say A5, as in "I'm not convinced A5 is a more durable oil, rather an enviromental-friendly high perf oil."

I was getting tired, as I am now.

radiometer · Nov 5, 2005

Quote by Big O Dave:

"Personally, I'd choose A3, because it is focused on uncompromised engine protection, and I believe that A5 would be compromised in that area to achieve better fuel economy..."

"Personally, I'd choose A3, because it is focused on uncompromised engine protection, and I believe that A5 would be compromised in that area to achieve better fuel economy."
---------------------------

Exactly, as I've come to see it. I also stick with A3 (or A3/B3/B4). This is because I want the best possible in wear protection. My very good MPG results from my selection of my cars and driving habits. In this way I get the best of both worlds.

ACEA rating questions.

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