API Starburst

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
I have a bottle of oil withhe starburst on the front of the bottle and no mention of ILSAC anywhere on the bottle.

It doesn't require ILSAC to be actually mentioned on the bottle. ILSAC rated, GF-5, and Resource Conserving are synonymous. There are multiple sources for this, including all kinds of API literature and the handbooks put out by various oil and additive companies. ILSAC certifies GF-5, which in turn allows the API licensed Starburst, and the "Resource Conserving" wording on the API Donut on the reverse of the bottle.

As for the first and last paragraphs of your post, I'm going to assume that they are part of some extremely subtle joke that I don't understand. In fact, that must be it. I'm promoting ILSAC lubes by running them in my F-150, which predates ILSAC, and discouraging people from using them by avoiding them in my G37, which actually lists them in the manual. My agenda is so well hidden I don't even know what it is myself.
 
Originally Posted By: Fordai
Okay after double checking both have the starburst and the donut BUT the 5W30 is not dexos approved.

Okay, that just means it's slightly old stock, not as old as before the MaxLife was ILSAC rated, but before the dexos1 happened (or at least the labelling came out). The oil stash picture thread in the picture subforum might have a picture of my old MaxLife, but it won't be a closeup to show the pre-ILSAC oil. If I still have some left, I might post a picture.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Garak please quit polluting my thread.


I have a bottle of oil withhe starburst on the front of the bottle and no mention of ILSAC anywhere on the bottle.


I am trying to promote honesty. I do not understand why you are peddling lies. Do you have an underground agenda? I have asked the moderators to move you from the site!


PM API and ILSAC about a mislabelled bottle...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Garak please quit polluting my thread.


I have a bottle of oil withhe starburst on the front of the bottle and no mention of ILSAC anywhere on the bottle.


I am trying to promote honesty. I do not understand why you are peddling lies. Do you have an underground agenda? I have asked the moderators to move you from the site!


PM API and ILSAC about a mislabelled bottle...


Garak is correct.His description is consistent with standard industry practice.
Here are the official rules from the API 1509 - Section 7 Link

Quote:
7 Use and Labeling Requirements for API Marks
7.1 API Engine Oil Quality Marks
7.1.1 Two types of Marks are licensed by API: the API Certification Mark “Starburst” and the API Service Symbol “Donut.” The marketer may display an API Mark, as described in this section, only after obtaining a license to use the specific API Mark. Under the terms of the License Agreement, marketers may use the Marks in a number of ways: for example, on containers of licensed products [bottles, cans, jugs, kegs, drums, intermediate bulk containers (IBC) and tanks], in advertisements of licensed products, and in materials describing licensed products.

7.1.2 API will provide API licensees with “camera-ready” quality images or electronic versions (TIF, EPS, JPG,BMP) of the API Marks, on request, for use in producing final artwork.

7.1.3 Both the API Certification Mark and the API Service Symbol may be used if the marketer meets all licensing requirements for both API Marks for that viscosity grade of engine oil. Note that a difference in viscosity grade, Service Category, or brand name denotes a separate engine oil. The API Marks shall be located and displayed as
described in 7.2 and 7.3.

7.2 API Certification Mark
7.2.1 If the API Certification Mark is used, it shall be clearly displayed on the front of the container of those engine oils that have been properly licensed by API. Note that this does not prevent the licensed marketer from displaying the API Certification Mark again on the back of the container.
7.2.2 The outside diameter of the API Certification Mark “Starburst” (measured from the outside tips) shall be at least 2.1 centimeters and shall be 1.5 (±0.1) times the inside diameter. The background of the outer band (containing the words AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE and CERTIFIED) shall be a color that contrasts with the label background. (For example, if the label background is white, the outside band could be black, with the words in white.)
The background of the inner circle shall be a color that contrasts with the outer band. The words AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE and CERTIFIED in the outer band of the API Certification Mark and the words FOR GASOLINE ENGINES in the center shall be all capital letters. The relationship of the letter size to the allocated space within the API Certification Mark must be consistent for all users of the API Certification Mark. All lettering used for words in the API Certification Mark must be identical for all licensees.
7.2.3 API has registered the API Certification Mark only in the English language, and it can be displayed only as registered (see Figure 4). However, the purpose of the API Certification Mark is to assist consumers, so API encourages licensed marketers to translate the words CERTIFIED and FOR GASOLINE ENGINES into any appropriate language outside of the API Certification Mark. The translation must be literal and provided to API as part of the licensing agreement. The location of the translations can be anywhere on the front of the label but not within a mark or symbol of any kind. AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE is also a licensed mark and cannot be translated without permission of API.

7.3 API Service Symbol
7.3.1 The API Service Symbol “Donut” may be located anywhere on the outside of the container. The outside diameter of the API Service Symbol shall be 1.9 times the inside diameter. The Service Category is located in the upper part of the Donut, the SAE viscosity grade is in the center, and the optional Energy Conserving notation is in the lower part. The API Service Symbol shall be large enough for the lettering to be legible and shall strictly conform to the design (including the required information and its placement) shown in Figure 5.
7.3.2 Use of the API Service Symbol is restricted to current API Service Categories [namely, SN, SM, SL, SJ, SH (when used as described in 7.3.3), CH-4, CI-4, and CJ-4. Except as prohibited in 4.3.3, these may appear alone or in combination with other current Service Categories. The API Service Categories must appear in the upper part of the API Service Symbol, but such placement does not preclude their use elsewhere on the container. Use of API Service Categories SA, SB, SC, SD, SE, SF, SG, CA, CB, CC, CD, CD-II, CE, CF, CF-2, CF-4 and CG-4 within the API Service Symbol is prohibited (see Annex A).
7.3.3 Use of more than one API S Service Category in the API Service Symbol is prohibited. SAE 0W-16 and 5W-16 oils may only be licensed as API SN. Service Category SH cannot be used in the API Service Symbol unless preceded by CH-4 and/or CI-4 and/or CJ-4. If API C Service Category oils are licensed for more than one current Service Category, these oils may display the Service Categories in the upper part of the API Service Symbol. Except as specified above, if the engine oil marketer chooses to include API C Service Categories with a current API S Category, a virgule (/) must be placed between the API S Service Category and the API C Service Categories, which are separated by commas. Licensees of Service Category C oils may use the C Categories first. Examples of acceptable notations are “API Service SN”; “API Service CJ-4,CI-4/SM”; “API Service SJ”; “API Service CJ-4/SM”; “API Service CI-4”; and “API Service CH-4.” Figure 6 shows examples of notations for various Service Categories used within the API Service Symbol.
For an oil that is formulated for diesel engine applications and meets both C and S Categories, it is suggested that the C Category be put first so that the consumer can recognize that the oil is primarily a diesel engine oil but also meets S Category requirements. Conversely, for an oil that is formulated for passenger car motor oil applications and meets both S and C Categories, it is suggested that the S Category be put first so that the consumer can recognize that the oil is primarily a passenger car motor oil but also meets C Category requirements. Some automobile manufacturers are concerned that engine oils with greater than 800 parts per million (0.08% mass) phosphorus can adversely affect catalytic converters in gasoline-fueled engines.

7.4 Product Traceability Coding
7.4.1 For purposes of conformance audits, the marketer shall ensure that product traceability codes appear on each container and that these codes are legible and durable. Each container shall be coded to permit traceability of samples in the marketplace by formulation, date of packaging, and source of manufacture.
7.4.2 The marketer may use whatever coding system is appropriate or convenient. Disclosure of coding systems to API is required in the EOLCS Online Application (see Annex H). No change in coding is permitted without prior notification of API. Coding information provided to API is considered confidential and will be used only as described in the API license agreement.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Garak please quit polluting my thread.


I have a bottle of oil withhe starburst on the front of the bottle and no mention of ILSAC anywhere on the bottle.


I am trying to promote honesty. I do not understand why you are peddling lies. Do you have an underground agenda? I have asked the moderators to move you from the site!


This is a joke...right? Because if it isn't, you are being pretentious and unreasonable concerning Garak's honesty, not to mention stubborn where the topic is concerned. We'll just go with this was a joke and forgive me if i too misunderstood the intent of your post.
 
Who do yo speak for wemay when you say "we'll"?

I for one value truth over honesty. Although honesty is nice the truth is pretty much topif the line.

I will provide an example

Mathematics queal the truth.

Science up to equals honesty. Science could be the truth but we may never find out.




Wow wemay, three insults toward me in one post. Now that's a fact!



Kids these days. It seems those who are badmouthing me joined later, except Shannow who can give me trouble is a founding member here.
 
Last edited:
I've read through this thread a few times and I really can't figure out what the issue is. Are you saying you've seen oil bottles with the starburst (not the donut) on the back of the bottle?
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Who do yo speak for wemay when you say "we'll"?

I for one value truth over honesty. Although honesty is nice the truth is pretty much topif the line.

I will provide an example

Mathematics queal the truth.

Science up to equals honesty. Science could be the truth but we may never find out.




Wow wemay, three insults toward me in one post. Now that's a fact!



Kids these days. It seems those who are badmouthing me joined later, except Shannow who can give me trouble is a founding member here.




mjoekingz28,

We'll = Garak and me.

No one is badmouthing or insulting you, just characterizing your post where you say Garak is "peddling lies", may have an agenda, and is "polluting your thread". Then you ask the mods to remove him from the site. I'd say my characterization of that post was pretty accurate and specific to said entry by you, not personal insults.
 
Garak,

The starburst has been around quite a while, old stock or not.

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/Backup_200005_read_oil_can_fig2.gif

My emphasis is it denotes the oil met the ILSAC grade in effect at the time of manufacture/ bottling, not something that exclusively denotes API SN / GL-5. Hence why I copied that post into my post you quoted from.

Does Canada have rules about removing prior manufactured oils from shelves?
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Wow wemay, three insults toward me in one post. Now that's a fact!

Wemay did not post an insult. He commented in a conditional fashion. Only one person posted insults in this thread. You hold that distinction. In any case, I'm unsure what I posted that was a lie or thread polluting. Just because you do not understand something or do not believe something does not make it untrue.

SN-RC is the same as SN/GF-5 which is the same as ILSAC certified. Such oils are marked with a Starbust up front and an API Donut in the back with "Resource Conserving." Pennzoil's take and the actual API regulations have been posted. They are unambiguous.

Those facts do not require your understanding or belief. Furthermore, your question was answered by me correctly, and therefore my post was completely on topic in "your" thread. The only pollution in this thread was dumped here by you. The only underground agenda here is the mystery surrounding what your point really is.
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
The starburst has been around quite a while, old stock or not.

Yes, I'm well aware of this. I have Quaker State SM/GF-4 on my shelf, with a Starburst. I've been purchasing energy conserving type oils since before the Starburst even came out. My original answer to the question didn't even reference GF-5 specifically. It referenced ILSAC certification:

Originally Posted By: Garak
The Starburst is only on the front and indicates that the oil is ILSAC certified. The Donut is on the back and is on any API certified oil, including certifed monogrades, HDEOs, and ILSAC certified PCMOs.


That is self-explanatory. ILSAC certified for current production is GF-5. For older bottles, it obviously varies by whatever API and ILSAC categories were current. Then I said:

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yes, ILSAC rated if it has it on the front. All ILSAC rated (GF-5) oils are SN as well.


That says even less about which version we're talking about than even the API regulations, which speak about current certifications. After all, they can't regulate something that's out of production, and we don't tend to see a lot of GF-2 oils on the shelves. Canada has no rules about removing old products, and in fact, we wound up having SM/GF-4 on shelf longer than did the States.

I never contended that SM/GF-4, SL/GF-3, etc., weren't ILSAC rated or couldn't have displayed the Starburst when they were being produced. Current production will simply be GF-5.
 
Let us see what is written in Webster's Universal Collegiate Dictionary!

In sult
1. To treat or speak insolently or with contemptuous rudeness; affront

2. To affect as an affront; offend or demean

3. An insolent or contemptuously rude action or remark; affront

4. Something having the effect of an affront

5. Med.
a. An injury or trauma
b. an agent that inflicts this.

6. Archaic. an attack or assault.



Affront

1. A deliberate attack or display of disrespect; insult

2. To offend by an open manifestation of disrespect or insolence.



Insolent

1. Boldly rude or disrespectful; contemptuously impertinent; insulting

2. An insolent person.





Ok, what do we (as people aka human beings) value more?

Honesty
Truth
Respect
Polite




Is there a way to run a poll?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
What is the difference with oils that display this on the front of the bottle VS bottles with the starburst on the backside?

The Starburst is only on the front and indicates that the oil is ILSAC certified. The Donut is on the back and is on any API certified oil, including certifed monogrades, HDEOs, and ILSAC certified PCMOs.



Go have yourself a walk down the oil aisle and see if you can find a bottle of oil with a starburst on the back of the bottle. I think you have defended this lie two or three times now. That goes against what this board (and even higher callings) can be about. Aka promoting truth not deception such as Shannow's inverted star!
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Go have yourself a walk down the oil aisle and see if you can find a bottle of oil with a starburst on the back of the bottle. I think you have defended this lie two or three times now.

I really don't know what you're on about. The rules state the Starburst must be on the front at the very least. The rules also state that in can be repeated on the back. I don't care if the bottle design is a collage of Starbursts. If it is a licensed oil and they are displaying the markings correctly, there will be one Starburst on the front, at the very minimum, and of the specified size and design. Do note that the API has their rules written in a certain way to protect their trademark and the consumer. We do see things like 10-30 instead of 10w-30 and things alluding to API certification on some of the PQIA's lists of garbage oils.

What lie? When did I say you could never have a Starburst on the back? The rules have been laid out for you. If you think they're a lie or don't believe them, that's up to you. I understand and believe them. If you need clarification, take it up with the API or ILSAC.

Buy what you like, with as many or as few Starbursts as you prefer.
 
Having been involved in the design process of several labels, I can assure you that it is very uncommon to see the starburst symbol on the back of a bottle - the simple reason: label space is limited.

This is especially true in Canada where labels must provide information in both official languages.
 
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Garak please quit polluting my thread.


I have a bottle of oil withhe starburst on the front of the bottle and no mention of ILSAC anywhere on the bottle.


I am trying to promote honesty. I do not understand why you are peddling lies. Do you have an underground agenda? I have asked the moderators to move you from the site!



Posting images is easy and free. I recommend that each provide evidence, compare it to the definitions/descriptions of how various approvals will be depicted on oil bottles, and let truth flow. All parties have opportunity to show proof and their side of the story.

It's certainly plausible that bottles were labeled wrong, inconsistently, etc. mistakes do happen. Counterfeits also exist, often with errors. Who knows???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top