Anyone use an inverse oiler???

demarpaint · Jul 9, 2005

I've been using one for many years and was wondering if anyone else uses one? Marvel Mystery Oil Company offered 3 sizes years ago, 1 qt, 2 qt, and 1 gal size. It feeds MMO into the engine via the PCV hose. You set up a drip per minute rate, and as the engine load increases (vacuum drops the rate drip rate increases).

Works great, and keeps things real clean.

Frank D

04SpecV · Jul 10, 2005

Theres some on ebay right now. Thinking of getting one.

TallPaul · Jul 10, 2005

Where does the oil go from the PCV hose?

Gary Allan · Jul 10, 2005

into the intake plenumn...

edit: TallPaul, it "t"'s into the PCV line. Since it's a virtual "dead line" (just a drip dialed in over time ..like a quart every 500 miles) it doesn't impact the function of the PCV vacuum line.

[ July 10, 2005, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

demarpaint · Jul 10, 2005

Exactly, I have it set up to use about a quart every 800-900 miles. I've used them on two vehicles over the years, with good success.

They claim it boosts compression by making a tighter seal around the piston rings. I can't prove or disprove that all I know is the vehicles run/ran great.

Frank D

TallPaul · Jul 10, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
..like a quart every 500 miles...

Strange how over the two years I have been at this site folks are trying to reduce oil consumption and now we have a device to consume oil.

But seriously, I see the advantage. Consuming in a controlled, induced input instead of by leakage past the rings is much better. I like it.

Hey, does MMO injection (or Rislone for those who prefer) negate the need for occasional water fogging to clean out carbon? I believe I have read that MMO or ATF blown through the intake will remove carbon also. Which brings up another question, what is the mechanism for water, ATF, or MMO to clean off the steam? Is it purely mechanical shock, or is there a chemical reaction? I am inclined to believe it is shock since chemically ATF and water are extremely different and both work. And if so, then the reason oil entering the conbustion chamber through blowby past the rings does not clean out the combustion chamber is that the blowby oil already is too hot to produce the shock?

[ July 11, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]

demarpaint · Jul 10, 2005

I tore down a 4.9L 85 E-150 engine that I had an inverse oiler on to replace a head gasket. All I can say was it was clean inside, I am not a mechanic but I have done my fair share of automotive work. This motor was clean, I had about 160,000 on it and it was never taken apart. I was the original owner and did take good care of it.

As far as the science (removal/prevention of carbon etc.) of how exactly it works, well??????? I have no idea!!!!!!!

What I like is you can adjust it to allow as much or little oil as you like. When vacuum drops it increases the oil flow, at idle it simply trickles. I think they have been around for a very long time, just not marketed well.

Frank D

TallPaul · Jul 10, 2005

So is this something we can rig ourselves? Do you just get a can of MMO and mount it in the engine bay with a vacuum hose into it and a valve (or very restrictive nozzle) to restrict the opening so only a little goes in?

Or is it just as effective (and simpler) to put MMO or ATF in the gas tank?

And, if I already run Neutra 131 in my fuel, am I basically achieving the same result?

demarpaint · Jul 10, 2005

quote:

TallPaul
Member # 2671 posted July 10, 2005 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So is this something we can rig ourselves? Do you just get a can of MMO and mount it in the engine bay with a vacuum hose into it and a valve (or very restrictive nozzle) to restrict the opening so only a little goes in?

Or is it just as effective (and simpler) to put MMO or ATF in the gas tank?

And, if I already run Neutra 131 in my fuel, am I basically achieving the same result?

I have the 2 qt size oiler so I can't speak about the 1/4 or 1/1 size. It is a metal container, with a site glass that has a little metal dropper inside and a knob on top to control the drip rate. You install a tee in the PCV valve hose, mount the container fill with MMO, and then let the engine warm up. Once warm you set the drop rate. I have mine at I think about 15 or so DPM (drops per minute) at idle.

I am not sure how you would make up a system that would control the flow like this. Years ago MMO company sold them in the 3 sizes mentioned above. I am not sure if the still offer them. I saw one on eBay, the guy selling it has no idea what it is.

The advantage of this over adding MMO to the fuel is its a more precise way of getting it into the system, and all you do is top it off when you check your oil. A 2 qt system will get you about 1500-2000 miles of driving depending on load, driving habits etc.

Frank D

[ July 11, 2005, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: demarpaint ]

What??? · Jul 10, 2005

Where can the dispencer be purchased?

04SpecV · Jul 11, 2005

http://www.ampcolubes.com/ is the same thing. They had a old stock one ebay for 40$ Buy it now, maybe theyll put more on.

demarpaint · Jul 11, 2005

I just called MMO the company was taken over a few years ago, and they no longer sell the inverse oilers.

Frank D

Gary Allan · Jul 11, 2005

TallPaul: That link is obsolete, I believe. I think when Turtle Wax bought MMO they discontinued the inverse oilers. It was in their catalog in the mid-late 70's

The expensive component is the metering valve. It's basically a venturi feed. At idle there is high vacuum in the PCV hose ..but low flow volume. As the engine intake climbs ..so does the flow through the PCV. It's in parallel with the throttle and attached to the same "vacuum cleaner" ..so to speak. The throttle should basically be a "pilot" for the flow from the MMO oiler.

The ultimate failure of these things to sell, IMHO, is that you're running up some decent pennies per mile if you're adding a quart of MMO every 500-1000 miles. It's not a bad idea and I'd surely enjoy having another gizmo under the hood of the guinea pig ..but for the average user ..it's just too much maintenance/$$. In my wife's jeep ..it would be a quart a month @ 1000 miles. Now for a short hopper that would be more prone to cylinder deposits ..sure.

Gary Allan · Jul 11, 2005

quote:

Hey, does MMO injection (or Rislone for those who prefer) negate the need for occasional water fogging to clean out carbon? I believe I have read that MMO or ATF blown through the intake will remove carbon also. Which brings up another question, what is the mechanism for water, ATF, or MMO to clean off the steam? Is it purely mechanical shock, or is there a chemical reaction? I am inclined to believe it is shock since chemically ATF and water are extremely different and both work. And if so, then the reason oil entering the conbustion chamber through blowby past the rings does not clean out the combustion chamber is that the blowby oil already is too hot to produce the shock?

I'm also inclined to believe that it is thermal shock and expansion properties that does this. ATF, at least in formulations that I've used over the years, burns cleanly (note: Terry and Molakule have expressed reservations of the use of ATF) and I've seen the results (YMMV). ATF, although having a flash point about par with motor oil, has a "fire point" rating that is about 40 degrees higher.

From the SOPUS site for DexIII/Mercon:

Flash Point, °C(°F) ASTM D-92 204(399)
Fire Point, °C(°F) ASTM D-92 224(435)
Pour Point, °C(°F) ASTM D-97 -57(-71)

What does this mean to us plebes? Got me swinging

stogiedude · Jul 11, 2005

I would think that by putting the MMO in your gas that you would get an optimal mixture of MMO and gas going into the combustion chamber. As you drive the gas in your tank is being sloshed around and agitated and the MMO or anything else that you put in there gets thoroughly mixed together. I really don't see an advantage to an inverse oiler. If you want to do a shock dose, add more to your tank or run it through a vacume line.

pastmaster · Jul 11, 2005

MMO Brethren,
With all the interest in inverse oilers that we can't obtain, it may be better if one of our learned brethren, design a unit that we can "homebuild", or find a manufacturer who would be interested, in marketing one. There are companies that already make things like this for other applications that they can economically adapt for our use.

I still think that a combination of MMO and a water injection system, may be somehow beneficial for fuel and operating economy, with the present prices of fuel, rising and rising. More MPG?

Just putting it in the fuel tank is OK with me, but is it better to use an inverse oiling system as far as the results desired in the MMO application? MMO is good for your engine and good for you too!

stogiedude · Jul 11, 2005

I can see instaling a H2O misting device of some kind because you can't just pour a quart of water into your gas tank since gas and water don't mix, but I guess I don't understand how an inverse oiler could be so much better than just pouring a pint or a quart of MMO or ATF in the tank at fill up.

04SpecV · Jul 11, 2005

I swear I posted a link to get one

http://www.ampcolubes.com/
http://www.ampcolubes.com/
http://www.ampcolubes.com/
Anyways the whole thing with this is you don't have to add it to the fuel tank every time. Wonder if you could use FP60 or Neutra in it.

TallPaul · Jul 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
ATF, at least in formulations that I've used over the years, burns cleanly ...

This, I see as further proof that ATFs have little detergent additive and probably not a lot of antiwear additive either as those components in motor oil passed by the rings have a tendency to foul plugs, no? So in that respect, MMO, ATF, and Rislone (remember the new oil analysis MolaKule did that showed very little additive), and water all would shock the system. Water is cheapest and could be run in the inverse oiler, but I think the oil based fill is better for not freezing, not rusting the engine, and not contaminating the motor oil if any blows by the rings.

Now, with MMO going into the combustion chamber would it help seal the rings and possibly reduce existing consumption? Probably negligibly.

I would like to add an inverse injection kit. I think running it in the fuel is not going to get the same result because the injectors will break it up too much vs having it come in directly through the PCV line.

And best of all: The inverse injection kit gives us another excuse to BUY MORE OIL!

pastmaster · Jul 11, 2005

Thanks 04SpecV!

Now if we can get several of the BITOG Brethren, together, and contact, Ampcolubes, and see if we can get a "group discount", versus buying them individually, it can save us money and we can buy more oil and MMO especially, with the savings! $59.95 each, is a bit steep for me, as I would want to buy 2 of them. Any other ideas on the subject?

Anyone use an inverse oiler???

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