Anyone into power comanders?

[cephas]

"The California Air Resources Board (CARB) announced recently that it
concluded an investigation against Dynojet Research, Inc. At issue was
the company's "Power Commander" that can be used to alter the air-fuel
mixture and engine timing of on- and off-road motorcycles. CARB said
that the installation of these devices would adversely affect the
emissions control systems of vehicles that were certified by the
original equipment manufacturers to comply with the agency's emissions
standards. Dynojet has now certified a California version of the "Power
Commander" and has agreed to pay $1,000,000 in penalties to the
California Air Pollution Control Fund."
Found this on another forum, and am shocked someone would use this device to actually manipulate their emission systems, and get their bike running like it should of been in the first place.

 

[GMBoy]

Well let me just say this. The Power Commander is a great product and the State of California is just going to far with their holier than though atititude towards emmissions.

Many, many Harley riders MUST use the PC to get their Harleys running as they should anyhow because of lean conditions right off the showrroom floor. The dealer reflash is the same thing. Also, change the pipes and air induction and you need the PC or a reflash to get running right again.

It's really no different than the millions of Hypertech, DiabloSport and other automotive programmers/chips in use.

Look, I am all for clean air but sometimes it just gets ridiculous - especially in California. Cars are so much cleaner today and getting better all the time - need to go after other air pollution issues now.

 

[cephas]

Harley's are not the only ones. Guzzi's, at least pre 2000, came in tuned to pass whatever it was they needed to pass, which left a very lean spot around 2,800 rpm. The PC enhanced performance especially with any modifications. Been there and done that, and after learning to tune the efi I am basically back to stock. This suits my high mileage days better. I think this is mainly a money scam by the powers to be. As long as motorcycles are here they'll be modified by owners for whatever reason.

 

[rn2fine]

Unlike modern cars most motorcycles with fuel injection due not have an oxygen sensor to adjust the air/fuel mixture. Instead of basing the air/fuel mixture on live feedback from a sensor it is based on a map in the systems memory. The map is based on measurements taken on a stock bike at the factory. Any changes such as installation of headers, crossover pipes, non-OEM mufflers, performance intakes, aftermarket cams, and head flow work cause a lean condition because the system is providing an air/fuel mixture based upon stock configuration. Even different fuels could probably affect the air/fuel mixture (E10, non-E10, etc....). My bike had a stock third muffler that crossed beneath the trans that blocked access to the trans drain. I replaced it with a simple crossover pipe which gave me access to the drain and increased performance. I also have mufflers on my bike that are a bit more free flowing than stock. These simple changes created a lean condition, backfiring, and overheating. I installed a power commader, then took my bike to a power commander dealer who used an oxygen sensor and dyno to create a new map for proper air/fuel mixture with the non stock equipment installed. Without the power commander the engine would run like [censored], backfire, overheat, and probably have a substantially reduced life due to the lean condition. It is a good and necessary tool to achive a proper air/fuel mixture. No doubt it can be abused. It is no different than changing the rods and jets in a carburetor to achive proper mixture after making change to an engine. This is just high tech version and much more accurate version of that. And it is the only way to achieve a proper air/fuel mixture as the manufacturer offers no remedy. The fines seem silly to me. Using their logic they should also fine companies like Edelbrock (a California company) who sell rods and jets to adjust air/fuel ratios in carburetors.

 

[rn2fine]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Many, many Harley riders MUST use the PC to get their Harleys running as they should anyhow because of lean conditions right off the showrroom floor. The dealer reflash is the same thing. Also, change the pipes and air induction and you need the PC or a reflash to get running right again.


Yep, I agree. Here in AZ Harley dealers are charging almost $200 each time they reflash. Way too expensive to do everytime a mod is made. Power Commander has a website for common equipment configurations and download is free.

 

[tom slick]

Something is fishy. first off, there are no power commanders made for off-road bikes, but the statement claims they do. secondly, all modifications of emissions related parts on any emissions controlled vehicle must me CARB certified and have been for 20-30 years, they are nothing new. motorcycles are not excluded but we don't have to get them inspected so we get away with it although technically illegal. Modification parts that are not CARB certified usually have a disclaimer of "competition use only" as a way of saying "install at your own risk"

If Dynojet did get actually get in trouble (I'd like to see a better source of info) it's because they finally got caught for not playing by CARB's long standing rules.

 

[tom slick]

Here is the fine info directly from CARB
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/casesett/dynojet.htm

I think dynojet got caught not playing by CARB's rules.

 

[wileyE]

"Off-road" or "off highway" use could include race tracks and drag strips by EPA definition. Not necessarily dirt bikes. If dynojet had that disclaimer included or labeled with all their products, as many after market company's do, the responsibility falls to the end consumer. I'd guess the marketing dept. dropped the ball on the disclaimers? or dynojet just figured it wasn't worth the legal fees to battle the epa. Pay the 1 million fine, and receive the free publicity from the media that introduces the new California legal programmer.