What's wrong with VW ?

[HTSS_TR]

According to a VW spokeswoman they knew their proposed fix would be rejected, then why propose it ? Remember this statement is from an authorized person to speak to the press, not a low level engineer or marketing.

They intentionally violated emission regulation in the first place then they want to cheat again and again after get caught ?

For some of you, CARB is California Air Resources Board.

Quote:
CARB Tells VW to Quit Blowing Smoke for 3.0-liter Diesel Fix

Volkswagen’s proposed fix for roughly 85,000 illegally polluting 3.0-liter diesel engines isn’t good enough, a California Air Resources Board letter said Wednesday.

The air quality regulators rejected VW’s plan and said the proposals were “incomplete, substantially deficient, and fall far short of meeting the legal requirements to return these vehicles to the claimed certified configuration,” according to the letter.


Quote:
“The company believes that we can fix the 3.0-liter to the standards to which those cars were originally certified,” VW lawyer Robert Giuffra said, according to Reuters.

A spokeswoman for Volkswagen said the rejection had been anticipated by the company.

“We understand that today’s announcement from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) is a procedural step under California state law and relates to recall plans for vehicles with V-6 3.0L TDI engines that were submitted previously. We continue to work closely with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and CARB to try to secure approval of a technical resolution for our 3.0L TDI vehicles as quickly as possible,” VW spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan said in a statement.


http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/carb-tells-vw-quit-blowing-smoke-3-0-liter-diesel-fix.html/2/

 

[Quattro Pete]

They are buying themselves time.

 

[NHGUY]

Just buy them all back,crush them,and let that be a very expensive lesson...to both carmaker and carbuyer.Dont believe all the hype and promises they spew..once you buy,you're normally stuck.

 

[Kira]

"buy them all back,crush them"...foolish. Take out the engines and refit them with gasoline engines IF the buyer wants to swap.

Pay the buyer if he wants..YES, sure.

Crush perfectly good cars because of a "banned engine", NO.

 

[skyactiv]

VW follows a long held German philosophy. Cheating is commonplace in German bussinesses.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Kira
"buy them all back,crush them"...foolish. Take out the engines and refit them with gasoline engines IF the buyer wants to swap.

There is a lot more to it than just an engine swap. Gasoline engines have different transmission, different emissions equipment, different fuel delivery, and who knows what else. By the time they're done swapping all that, parts and work effort would probably make it cost prohibitive.

 

[BrocLuno]

Just install the 5 cylinder Ford diesel and cruise on

Honestly, just fix the computer, leave the rest in place if the owner wishes. Yeah they'll be sluggish, but they will likely run 400,000 miles in de-tuned state.

And after they are re-certified, I'll bet some smart silicon valley types come up with a Dinan like chip that will allow the performance to be enhanced and pass smog...

 

[09_GXP]

With some regulatory agencies you have a deadline to submit a proposal. Even if you expect it to be rejected you have to respond with your current best plan or risk other complications. It also provides some ammo down the line for VW that they have been working hard on the issues and not just sitting back.

 

[KGMtech]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
VW follows a long held German philosophy. Cheating is commonplace in German bussinesses.


I don't think this is a fair statement. When the pressures are high enough, all humans will seek an out regardless of country, heritage.

Someone famous once said "he who is without sin can throw the first stone" not the same context, but whatever )

The VW Engineers were pressured by the CEO to deliver what turned out to be a technical impossibility. The immediate price of their failure would have been loss of their jobs - not saying this justified their actions, but faced with the same situation many of us might consider bad choices.

 

[wemay]

VW may be doing two things here:

They may genuinely believe their proposal was in good faith but under the current climate, expect the EPA and CARB not to accept it unless they 'bend over backwards' i.e., indroduce a full line of e-electric vehicles for instance. (like the e-Golf).

and/or

They are buying time as others have said, in order to establish a paper trail of cooperation during this process.

 

[Win]

They're just jerking people around, trying to get out of their malfeasance on the cheap. What company wouldn't if it's not being pressured to do otherwise?

Just set a drop dead date for the cars to be turned into the crusher facility without any compensation to the owner, combined with a crippling per diem fine for any hapless owner who can not produce a genuine receipt for on time delivery of the car to the crusher, and watch these VW pinheads come up with a solution in days.

 

[bigt61]

Just fine them and leave the cars alone. Make sure the new ones being produced meet the arcane standard. I doubt the extra pollution is more than one extra forest fire a year. The EPA and their crazy rules are killing the diesel engine, probably intentionally.

 

[Alfred_B]

They have entered into a negotiation with the state and this is just one step in it. No need to take any single interim statement and action very seriously.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Everyone is treating VW like the devil! All they wanted to do was give their customers the best fuel economy and power with a little bit of extra plant fertilizer from the tailpipe, and they're being hung for that because some agency wants to keep diesels out of the consumers hand. EPA obviously doesn't care that more fuel is burned across the industry, (most of it wasted) behind maintaining a stoich, cool and inefficient combustion regime that's been forced onto automakers because of the THREAT of nitrogen species. Seriously.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Everyone is treating VW like the devil! All they wanted to do was give their customers the best fuel economy and power with a little bit of extra plant fertilizer from the tailpipe, and they're being hung for that because some agency wants to keep diesels out of the consumers hand. EPA obviously doesn't care that more fuel is burned across the industry, (most of it wasted) behind maintaining a stoich, cool and inefficient combustion regime that's been forced onto automakers because of the THREAT of nitrogen species. Seriously.
They lied, 40x the pollutants of what they said they would be putting out.

Do you want your city to have air like China? How about all car manufacturers just being allowed to skip on by with whatever they want?

You live in a little town in Canada, there isn't air problems there.

I live in one of the largest cities in the U.S., air pollution is a major problem.

 

[PeterPolyol]

No doubt air pollution is a problem, but is NOx specifically responsible for it? Nitrogen Oxide species are not the problem in so called photochemical smog, but VOCs. Nitrogen Oxides are forms of N that plants can use, with agriculture being by far the biggest emitter.

Like the so-called CO2 threat (oh no organic life, scary) which requires taxes to be paid to mysterious entities for whatever reason, NOx is simply a political red-herring IMO.

Shoot, the biggest offender for VOC pollution is on- and off-road engines. You know a good way to reduce excess fuel and VOCs spewing from tailpipes? Lean burn. But lean burn can't happen ironically, to prevent NOx, who's only real threat is photochemical reactions with VOCs. Does that makes sense from the pollution prevention perspective?

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Everyone is treating VW like the devil! All they wanted to do was give their customers the best fuel economy and power with a little bit of extra plant fertilizer from the tailpipe, and they're being hung for that because some agency wants to keep diesels out of the consumers hand. EPA obviously doesn't care that more fuel is burned across the industry, (most of it wasted) behind maintaining a stoich, cool and inefficient combustion regime that's been forced onto automakers because of the THREAT of nitrogen species. Seriously.
They lied, 40x the pollutants of what they said they would be putting out.

Do you want your city to have air like China? How about all car manufacturers just being allowed to skip on by with whatever they want?

You live in a little town in Canada, there isn't air problems there.

I live in one of the largest cities in the U.S., air pollution is a major problem.


OK, 40x of ONE emissions component, NOx. It comes from high combustion chamber temperatures. Other components may have been lower.

NOx can become acid rain, so it's not all rainbows and unicorns.

 

[PeterPolyol]

btw "photochemical smog" is a buzzword. According to the EPA themselves, it refers specifically to ground level ozone. It's time to ban and fine lightening storms!

What an easy campaign, though.. just the algebraic terminology NOx, pronounced "NOX" is a great psychological suggestion to the word "noxious", as in "fumes", which explains why this story has such a sensational effect among the general population. "What? That car billows NOX? *cough cough* I'm choking! How can they be so evil!"

 

[Nick1994]

My aunt owns a 2013 VW Beetle TDI, they call it a "clean diesel" a million times throughout the booklets and owner's manual.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My aunt owns a 2013 VW Beetle TDI, they call it a "clean diesel" a million times throughout the booklets and owner's manual.


So what you are saying is that both you and the VW manuals are guilty of exaggeration