anyone here own a Kimber 1911?

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Ancient technology vs. modern technology.

That's why all the top pro shooters, many SWAT teams and the FBI HRT use 1911's, eh??
smirk2.gif


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Glocks are striker fired and the striker resets at half cocked

This is true, but most striker fired guns are at full cock. But it doesn't really matter because their is a firing pin block anyway. Series 80 1911's have the same feature, but again, it doesn't really matter because non-80 type pistols pass the California drop test without problems...
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Does any military or police agency use 1911s???


I know where you are going with that question but I think the more important question is how long of a service life did the 1911 have in the U.S. Military? That would be around 80 years or so. Just because it is not in wide use today in the military/police services doesn't mean a thing. After all, we are living in the age of the wimp and political correctness. As was stated earlier, several elite military/police agencies still use the 1911.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Does any military or police agency use 1911s???

Quote:
Marine Force Recon, Los Angeles Police Department Special Weapons and Tactics, the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta (Delta Force) are among them. The Tacoma, WA Police Department made history in 2001 by becoming the first metropolitan police department in nearly 50 years to adopt the 1911 as its official carry weapon. The Tacoma Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

Torrance CA also allows 1911 carry as one example. And last I checked SWAT and FBI were police organizations.

Most police groups use Glocks because they get them cheap and are simple to train with reducing costs, not because they are superior weapons.
 
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Yea, I meant the LDA Kimber system.


LDA is Para Ordnance.

1911's handle well and have a nice short trigger, which makes them easier to shoot. I still wouldn't trust my life to one, especially after seeing how frequently and easily they jam in the 5 years I've been shooting USPSA.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Snake42
Taint likely bro, when the 9mm is fully expanded (if it expands) ain't no bigger than the 45 before it expands at all. Also the 9mm tends to over penetrate and exit the target without expending all it's stopping power so that much is lost. The 9mm is somewhere between the 38 special and the 45 in stopping power.


You need to do some more research on this. Most 9mm hollowpoints are over .451" diameter when expanded. Even the cheap ones.


And what are you baseing this statement on? In the testing that I personally did I never found a 9mm bullet that expanded to .451 diameter. The greatest expansion I found was approx. .423. Any more than that and the bullet starts to fragment with pieces going where-ever. I conducted my testing using wet newspaper, ballistic gelatin, soft wood and layered clothing.
 
Here's the bottom line....9mm.....use a +p+ round and it's gonna hurt as much as any 45 ACP. PERIOD. And it's likely to feed better, be more reliable, and jam less. Expansion Blaaaaaapansion.

You can purchase 9mm +p+ that will do 1400 + ft/sec and produce 500 Ft. lbs. of muzzle energy (.357 mag power). You lay 15 of those through a Grizzly and it'll be really really hurt!

And you can also purchase cases of craap practice ammo cheaper than any other defense round and shoot a ton and get cozy with your gun...so when the shat hits the fan, you can reliably use it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Snake42
And what are you baseing this statement on? In the testing that I personally did I never found a 9mm bullet that expanded to .451 diameter. The greatest expansion I found was approx. .423. Any more than that and the bullet starts to fragment with pieces going where-ever. I conducted my testing using wet newspaper, ballistic gelatin, soft wood and layered clothing.


Myself and several people I know, as well as many professional ballistics testers have all had results contrary to yours.

This was just a super cheap Winchester 115gr JHP from Walmart fired into several jugs of water.

http://files.chevrofreak.com/range/May-29-2003/USA9JHP-1.jpg

http://files.chevrofreak.com/range/May-29-2003/USA9JHP-2.jpg

As you can see they expanded far beyond their original .355" diameter.

These tests were by a friend of mine.

http://www.jtice.com/blogs/ballistics_testing_3-3-07/

Those expanded bullets (particularly the Gold Dot and HST) look just like they're supposed to, and just like the ones tested by many other people.

If you're using [censored] ammo, I'm not surprised that you're having the results you are. Were they Cor-Bon's? Cor Bon +P+ ammo fragments to [censored] and has poor penetration. I would never carry it for self defense.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Here's the bottom line....9mm.....use a +p+ round and it's gonna hurt as much as any 45 ACP. PERIOD. And it's likely to feed better, be more reliable, and jam less. Expansion Blaaaaaapansion.

You can purchase 9mm +p+ that will do 1400 + ft/sec and produce 500 Ft. lbs. of muzzle energy (.357 mag power). You lay 15 of those through a Grizzly and it'll be really really hurt!

And you can also purchase cases of craap practice ammo cheaper than any other defense round and shoot a ton and get cozy with your gun...so when the shat hits the fan, you can reliably use it.


Super fast ammo will usually expand too fast, either fragmenting or slowing very rapidly. That prevents the bullet from reaching vital organs. The slower moving heavier rounds usually penetrate better.

Using a handgun for bear is just asking for the bear to shove that gun where the sun don't shine.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Gregory
Colt has a new agent DA only.


That's a revolver isn't it?


The New Agent is a short barrel, short grip frame 1991 style DA, think 1911 Officers model with a Para Ord DA trigger. The sight is a groove running the length of the slide: a "trench sight" IIRC.

Unfortunately Colt's out of the DA revolver business.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Snake42
And what are you baseing this statement on? In the testing that I personally did I never found a 9mm bullet that expanded to .451 diameter. The greatest expansion I found was approx. .423. Any more than that and the bullet starts to fragment with pieces going where-ever. I conducted my testing using wet newspaper, ballistic gelatin, soft wood and layered clothing.


Myself and several people I know, as well as many professional ballistics testers have all had results contrary to yours.

This was just a super cheap Winchester 115gr JHP from Walmart fired into several jugs of water.

http://files.chevrofreak.com/range/May-29-2003/USA9JHP-1.jpg

http://files.chevrofreak.com/range/May-29-2003/USA9JHP-2.jpg

As you can see they expanded far beyond their original .355" diameter.

These tests were by a friend of mine.

http://www.jtice.com/blogs/ballistics_testing_3-3-07/

Those expanded bullets (particularly the Gold Dot and HST) look just like they're supposed to, and just like the ones tested by many other people.

If you're using [censored] ammo, I'm not surprised that you're having the results you are. Were they Cor-Bon's? Cor Bon +P+ ammo fragments to [censored] and has poor penetration. I would never carry it for self defense.


Somehow I don't doubt that at all. You simply cannot compare bullets fired into water with bullets fired into a medium that more closely resembles human tissue. As far as the bullets that I used in my experiments they were Winchester Silvertips and Federal Hydro-Shock, the only factory cartridges that I use. I suppose that if you used a testing medium more in line with reality then you might get results closer to what I got.
 
Originally Posted By: Snake42
Somehow I don't doubt that at all. You simply cannot compare bullets fired into water with bullets fired into a medium that more closely resembles human tissue. As far as the bullets that I used in my experiments they were Winchester Silvertips and Federal Hydro-Shock, the only factory cartridges that I use. I suppose that if you used a testing medium more in line with reality then you might get results closer to what I got.


Do a search for Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T and you'll find all kinds of pictures of that same ammo fired into water, paper, and ballistics gel with nearly identical results. Ammolab.com, which is no more, had pictures of different rounds fired into gelatin, both bare and through denim. Their tests on the 115gr Winchester JHP are just like mine. They did have quite a few rounds that failed to expand, and many of them were Federal Hydra-Shok. The newer bullet designs are considerably better than old ones. The Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T are some of the best available. Winchester Silvertips and Federal Hydra-Shok are both very old technology by comparison.
 
In response to drew99gt's question, i used to carry a glock .40 on duty. As soon as we were allowed, i switched to a 1911 and never looked back. As for caliber selection, 9mm may expand, but .45 NEVER shrinks-bout all I have to say about that.
 
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