Anyone carry "protection" when driving?
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Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
A real man knows how to avoid fighting altogether.
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
A real man knows how to avoid fighting altogether.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
Too true...
Ironically, the closest I've ever come to defensive use of a firearm was following a road rage incident on I-91 in CT...one of those "safe" states.
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
Too true...
Ironically, the closest I've ever come to defensive use of a firearm was following a road rage incident on I-91 in CT...one of those "safe" states.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Ironically, the closest I've ever come to defensive use of a firearm was following a road rage incident on I-91 in CT...one of those "safe" states.
Yea.
We protect money, banks, politicians, On & On with guns.
BUT we protect our children in buildings with them in by the hundreds... with a sign that says "No guns allowed" or "Gun free zone", that makes it very easy for evil to mow down lots of children.
Oh.
My.
God.
Where did common sense go???
Ironically, the closest I've ever come to defensive use of a firearm was following a road rage incident on I-91 in CT...one of those "safe" states.
Yea.
We protect money, banks, politicians, On & On with guns.
BUT we protect our children in buildings with them in by the hundreds... with a sign that says "No guns allowed" or "Gun free zone", that makes it very easy for evil to mow down lots of children.
Oh.
My.
God.
Where did common sense go???
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
A real man knows how to avoid fighting altogether.
I agree completely. I am never looking for a fight. You can't insult me enough, or get me riled up enough, to lead to a fight. I am simply not interested.
But if you threaten me, seriously threaten me, then that is a different matter.
I wouldn't be using my fists, like a "real man", because I am not interested in manliness...only in ending the threat that I can't avoid...in winning the fight that I didn't start.
As an example, I was once the target of a road rage incident in CT (alluded to in an earlier post). About ten years ago, the driver of a white pickup truck was honking his horn and yelling at me following a merge due to construction lane closure. I had let several cars in where the cones were narrowing down. I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
So, once traffic cleared, he was tailgating (as in a few feet off my bumper at 55 MPH) and speeding up then braking to stop a foot or two off my bumper. I didn't respond. I stayed at 55 MPH (slightly below the speed limit) in the right lane, trying to avoid a conflict. If this guy was in a hurry, then following me was pointless. He eventually sped off and I relaxed.
Until I saw his truck on the shoulder.
He pulled out in front of me, then brake checked me to zero MPH on the interstate. I tried to pass his stopped vehicle, but he kept swerving from lane to lane to block my passage. We were at less than 20 MPH, on the interstate, with him weaving and trying to stop me. I pulled over.
He took off.
I saw him on the shoulder again and got in the left lane to avoid him. At high speed now, he caught up to me and was on my bumper (seriously, one to two feet at well above the limit). He passed me again, then braked very hard down to 20 MPH. I did my best to avoid hitting him. and then the weaving and blocking started again.
During this whole incident, his driving put me at serious risk. 20 MPH on the interstate is asking for a collision. He tried to create a collision with the hard braking. He waited for me not once, but twice.
While he was weaving, an exit came up. I took it at the last minute and headed for a gas station (public place). He backed up on the highway to take the same exit and drove into the gas station. I was calling 911 and giving his description (make/model of truck and license number) as he pulled in. He blocked my vehicle from exiting by parking right behind me.
I think he saw me on the cell phone and decided to leave.
What he couldn't see was the H&K in my right hand. I had done everything I could to avoid the conflict, but now I was trapped, with nowhere to go. He presented unknown intentions for the past 15 minutes, but he had clearly been targeting me with his behaviour and reckless driving. Had he exited his truck to come over to my truck, I would have had to assess his intentions, but I had quite the demonstration of hostile intent to that point. You should know that I shoot often, that I practice shooting at close range, and that I'm very comfortable with my H&K.
So, please don't start banging on my window at a light, if I can't drive off and avoid the situation, then I will use force, up to and including lethal force, to end your threat.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
A real man knows how to avoid fighting altogether.
I agree completely. I am never looking for a fight. You can't insult me enough, or get me riled up enough, to lead to a fight. I am simply not interested.
But if you threaten me, seriously threaten me, then that is a different matter.
I wouldn't be using my fists, like a "real man", because I am not interested in manliness...only in ending the threat that I can't avoid...in winning the fight that I didn't start.
As an example, I was once the target of a road rage incident in CT (alluded to in an earlier post). About ten years ago, the driver of a white pickup truck was honking his horn and yelling at me following a merge due to construction lane closure. I had let several cars in where the cones were narrowing down. I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
So, once traffic cleared, he was tailgating (as in a few feet off my bumper at 55 MPH) and speeding up then braking to stop a foot or two off my bumper. I didn't respond. I stayed at 55 MPH (slightly below the speed limit) in the right lane, trying to avoid a conflict. If this guy was in a hurry, then following me was pointless. He eventually sped off and I relaxed.
Until I saw his truck on the shoulder.
He pulled out in front of me, then brake checked me to zero MPH on the interstate. I tried to pass his stopped vehicle, but he kept swerving from lane to lane to block my passage. We were at less than 20 MPH, on the interstate, with him weaving and trying to stop me. I pulled over.
He took off.
I saw him on the shoulder again and got in the left lane to avoid him. At high speed now, he caught up to me and was on my bumper (seriously, one to two feet at well above the limit). He passed me again, then braked very hard down to 20 MPH. I did my best to avoid hitting him. and then the weaving and blocking started again.
During this whole incident, his driving put me at serious risk. 20 MPH on the interstate is asking for a collision. He tried to create a collision with the hard braking. He waited for me not once, but twice.
While he was weaving, an exit came up. I took it at the last minute and headed for a gas station (public place). He backed up on the highway to take the same exit and drove into the gas station. I was calling 911 and giving his description (make/model of truck and license number) as he pulled in. He blocked my vehicle from exiting by parking right behind me.
I think he saw me on the cell phone and decided to leave.
What he couldn't see was the H&K in my right hand. I had done everything I could to avoid the conflict, but now I was trapped, with nowhere to go. He presented unknown intentions for the past 15 minutes, but he had clearly been targeting me with his behaviour and reckless driving. Had he exited his truck to come over to my truck, I would have had to assess his intentions, but I had quite the demonstration of hostile intent to that point. You should know that I shoot often, that I practice shooting at close range, and that I'm very comfortable with my H&K.
So, please don't start banging on my window at a light, if I can't drive off and avoid the situation, then I will use force, up to and including lethal force, to end your threat.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I try to avoid conflicts at all costs
This, don't escalate situations, just walk away.
and 2 words, dash cam, I am thinking of adding one pointing to the back also.
Royal Canuk Mounted Police are great people but try carrying one on your back 24/7 for your protection,
I read in south afrika they have flame throwers below the vehicle door, and these are quite legal too, I wonder if her majesty will allow such devices
I try to avoid conflicts at all costs
This, don't escalate situations, just walk away.
and 2 words, dash cam, I am thinking of adding one pointing to the back also.
Royal Canuk Mounted Police are great people but try carrying one on your back 24/7 for your protection,
I read in south afrika they have flame throwers below the vehicle door, and these are quite legal too, I wonder if her majesty will allow such devices
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
You're playing semantics. Since you opened that door I'll substitute concern for afraid.
I wear a seat belt at all times because I have a concern about other drivers, as well as other things out of my control (such as deer). I obey the speed limits out of concern that I may get a ticket, as well as a concern for other motorists should I choose to drive in an unsafe manner. I keep my vehicles maintained because of a concern over safety, both mine, my passengers and other motorists who may be impacted if I don't operate a safe vehicle.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun (or use my fists) because I've never been concerned about getting in a violent altercation with other people or motorists.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
You're playing semantics. Since you opened that door I'll substitute concern for afraid.
I wear a seat belt at all times because I have a concern about other drivers, as well as other things out of my control (such as deer). I obey the speed limits out of concern that I may get a ticket, as well as a concern for other motorists should I choose to drive in an unsafe manner. I keep my vehicles maintained because of a concern over safety, both mine, my passengers and other motorists who may be impacted if I don't operate a safe vehicle.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun (or use my fists) because I've never been concerned about getting in a violent altercation with other people or motorists.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
The phrase "tread softly, but carry a big stick" comes to mind..
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
No, but I wish we could. I would be one of the first to sign up for concealed carry if it ever became available.
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
No, but I wish we could. I would be one of the first to sign up for concealed carry if it ever became available.
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
[
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
Pop I'm generally in agreement with you on the subject of this thread but in this specific instance you've clearly cherry-picked a quote to make your point, hurting your argument. Astro14's sentence immediately prior to what you quoted provides critical context which renders your point invalid: "I had let several cars in where the cones were narrowing down." He had already been extra courteous by allowing multiple people merge when his only real duty, and in fact the proper behavior, is to perform an alternating "zipper" type merge. What would you have him do, stop and allow every person in the closing lane to proceed ahead of him?
jeff
[
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
Pop I'm generally in agreement with you on the subject of this thread but in this specific instance you've clearly cherry-picked a quote to make your point, hurting your argument. Astro14's sentence immediately prior to what you quoted provides critical context which renders your point invalid: "I had let several cars in where the cones were narrowing down." He had already been extra courteous by allowing multiple people merge when his only real duty, and in fact the proper behavior, is to perform an alternating "zipper" type merge. What would you have him do, stop and allow every person in the closing lane to proceed ahead of him?
jeff
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Nope. Never been that frightened to feel the need to carry a gun.
Great thinking, that way, when you DO need it, you'll be without it. SMART
Let me guess, you are for more strict gun laws too, because that will keep the criminals hands off them then
The fact is, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with gun.
Nope. Never been that frightened to feel the need to carry a gun.
Great thinking, that way, when you DO need it, you'll be without it. SMART
Let me guess, you are for more strict gun laws too, because that will keep the criminals hands off them then
The fact is, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with gun.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
You're playing semantics. Since you opened that door I'll substitute concern for afraid.
I wear a seat belt at all times because I have a concern about other drivers, as well as other things out of my control (such as deer). I obey the speed limits out of concern that I may get a ticket, as well as a concern for other motorists should I choose to drive in an unsafe manner. I keep my vehicles maintained because of a concern over safety, both mine, my passengers and other motorists who may be impacted if I don't operate a safe vehicle.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun (or use my fists) because I've never been concerned about getting in a violent altercation with other people or motorists.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
You're right Pop. I could have prevented it by letting him in, had I known he was a psycho, I might have acted differently.
I absolutely tried to defuse it. But I was not successful until he saw me on the cell phone (a much less common item back then).
The signs for the merge were posted for miles. In those miles, I let in dozens and dozens of cars. I am a pretty mellow driver in the truck: right lane, slightly over speed limits, use my signals. Just the kind of guy that some people hate, apparently...
Then as the cones narrowed down and half of the left lane was closed, I let in one more, then another, then another and this guy was aggressively on the tail of the third. I had just let three folks in. The guy right behind me backed off to let this guy in. He had a place to go, but wasn't interested in it...
Had he signaled, waved, anything, then I might have relented, even though he waited 5 miles to merge and clearly wasn't interested in alternating. But his "signal" was an upraised middle finger - his first interaction...and my first clue.
I suspect he's used to intimidating people in traffic. Interesting how people behave when they're anonymous. Interesting too that he then took 15 minutes out of his day (delaying his arrival for whatever made him in such a hurry) to carry on his antics. Interesting too that he was willing to take such chances. Full stop on a freeway? Weaving across lanes at 20 MPH on a freeway? I have no idea what mental, or chemical, state he was in, but he had no right to place me or other drivers at such risk, just to carry out his aggression.
You may not be concerned about getting in a violent altercation, but you may not have any control over an altercation that seeks you out. Like the deer that decides to jump in front of you, you may be randomly selected as a target of crime or violence without having any say in the matter. At that moment, you will no options, it has found you.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Interesting; at least two responses in this thread inferring that those who carry do it out of fear.
I carry for the same reason that I buckle up. I'm not afraid of getting into an accident, nor am I afraid of protecting myself or my family if the need arises. Both are tools at my disposal for self preservation and I utilize both as appropriate.
You're playing semantics. Since you opened that door I'll substitute concern for afraid.
I wear a seat belt at all times because I have a concern about other drivers, as well as other things out of my control (such as deer). I obey the speed limits out of concern that I may get a ticket, as well as a concern for other motorists should I choose to drive in an unsafe manner. I keep my vehicles maintained because of a concern over safety, both mine, my passengers and other motorists who may be impacted if I don't operate a safe vehicle.
I don't feel the need to carry a gun (or use my fists) because I've never been concerned about getting in a violent altercation with other people or motorists.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I declined to let him in. He clearly took offense. I believe in alternating, and in fact, let three cars in after the left lane was already closed, but I didn't let him in.
And you could have diffused the entire situation before it even started with a little bit of extra courtesy.
You're right Pop. I could have prevented it by letting him in, had I known he was a psycho, I might have acted differently.
I absolutely tried to defuse it. But I was not successful until he saw me on the cell phone (a much less common item back then).
The signs for the merge were posted for miles. In those miles, I let in dozens and dozens of cars. I am a pretty mellow driver in the truck: right lane, slightly over speed limits, use my signals. Just the kind of guy that some people hate, apparently...
Then as the cones narrowed down and half of the left lane was closed, I let in one more, then another, then another and this guy was aggressively on the tail of the third. I had just let three folks in. The guy right behind me backed off to let this guy in. He had a place to go, but wasn't interested in it...
Had he signaled, waved, anything, then I might have relented, even though he waited 5 miles to merge and clearly wasn't interested in alternating. But his "signal" was an upraised middle finger - his first interaction...and my first clue.
I suspect he's used to intimidating people in traffic. Interesting how people behave when they're anonymous. Interesting too that he then took 15 minutes out of his day (delaying his arrival for whatever made him in such a hurry) to carry on his antics. Interesting too that he was willing to take such chances. Full stop on a freeway? Weaving across lanes at 20 MPH on a freeway? I have no idea what mental, or chemical, state he was in, but he had no right to place me or other drivers at such risk, just to carry out his aggression.
You may not be concerned about getting in a violent altercation, but you may not have any control over an altercation that seeks you out. Like the deer that decides to jump in front of you, you may be randomly selected as a target of crime or violence without having any say in the matter. At that moment, you will no options, it has found you.
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Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
Ya Right. I'm 71, fat, with more than a few health issues, and you expect me to fight with my fists.
Plus you call me names. I'm far from being an idiot, Sir, I use the term sir loosely.
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
Ya Right. I'm 71, fat, with more than a few health issues, and you expect me to fight with my fists.
Plus you call me names. I'm far from being an idiot, Sir, I use the term sir loosely.
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
Fact of the matter is, I do not live in Canada, nor do I wish to give up my freedoms by moving there!
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
Fact of the matter is, I do not live in Canada, nor do I wish to give up my freedoms by moving there!
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
Fact of the matter is, I do not live in Canada, nor do I wish to give up my freedoms by moving there!
Right. It's not a "need", it's a "right". A "natural right".
Our "natural rights" don't come from Big Bro, period.
...and the sooner people learn that, oh, wait, some never will.
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
In Canada we don't need to carry firearms everywhere we go.
Fact of the matter is, I do not live in Canada, nor do I wish to give up my freedoms by moving there!
Right. It's not a "need", it's a "right". A "natural right".
Our "natural rights" don't come from Big Bro, period.
...and the sooner people learn that, oh, wait, some never will.
Mine stays with me as well. The way I see it, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
I do try to avoid confrontation whenever possible. I've walked away from many situations where others would've chosen to draw their weapon. If there's an avenue to walk away without injury to either party, that's the way to go. Plus, the police around here are pretty good, they respond quickly.
I do try to avoid confrontation whenever possible. I've walked away from many situations where others would've chosen to draw their weapon. If there's an avenue to walk away without injury to either party, that's the way to go. Plus, the police around here are pretty good, they respond quickly.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
Ya Right. I'm 71, fat, with more than a few health issues, and you expect me to fight with my fists.
Plus you call me names. I'm far from being an idiot, Sir, I use the term sir loosely.
This is a critical point: without the means for self defense, you have lost the exercise of your inherent right for self defense. Our fist advocate fails to consider the position of most people; they lack his size and strength. I have size and strength, but it will decline as I continue to age.
Against a larger, or stronger, or younger, or trained, or more numerous opponent, you will likely lose. If that opponent intends to do you severe harm, or kill you, then your right of self defense is only able to be exercised with a weapon that enables you to meet force with proportional force.
Sam Colt made the older, the smaller, the weaker equals with their opponent. He allowed them the exercise of that right. The right always existed, but without a weapon that placed people on an equal footing, that right was meaningless.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Only idiots carry a gun, innocent people are not the idiots. Be a real man and fight with your fists. I obviously don't carry a gun....live life in fear, not.
Ya Right. I'm 71, fat, with more than a few health issues, and you expect me to fight with my fists.
Plus you call me names. I'm far from being an idiot, Sir, I use the term sir loosely.
This is a critical point: without the means for self defense, you have lost the exercise of your inherent right for self defense. Our fist advocate fails to consider the position of most people; they lack his size and strength. I have size and strength, but it will decline as I continue to age.
Against a larger, or stronger, or younger, or trained, or more numerous opponent, you will likely lose. If that opponent intends to do you severe harm, or kill you, then your right of self defense is only able to be exercised with a weapon that enables you to meet force with proportional force.
Sam Colt made the older, the smaller, the weaker equals with their opponent. He allowed them the exercise of that right. The right always existed, but without a weapon that placed people on an equal footing, that right was meaningless.
Let me also add, as it is critical to this discussion, that if you carry a lethal weapon you have a duty and a responsibility to avoid conflict to the greatest extent possible. I am ready to be insulted, to be treated poorly, whatever, if that avoids a conflict in which someone is seriously hurt or killed.
Even if that person I save is a complete @$$####.
Even if that person I save is a complete @$$####.
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