Any Bridgestone/Firestone deals out there?

[Hokiefyd]

Thanks. I read those same webpages on Hunter's website yesterday evening!

I want to educate myself up front about it, so if they say they can't "balance them" because of wheel runout, I can suggest other options.

What I need today is to find someone willing to spend the time to get it right, rather than be satisfied with "in spec".

 

[SwampSurvivor]

That's what I went through with my wobbleforces. They were always too "in spec" to be replaced. Well that and I don't believe they have any sort of warranty.

So I went out and bought two more ... Mistake!

With the bad experience I had with the Wobbleforces and Insignia SE 200 ... I don't see myself having too many more Bridgestone / Firestone tires.

I *may* give some Blizzaks a try again - those were excellent.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Firestone balanced the tires this afternoon. Bottom line: little change.

I got the "it's good as long as its under 26 pounds" guy. Basically, that's where they're trained to reject it, and anything under that is "good". The road force numbers he wrote down are 10, 12, 15, and 17 pounds. At face value, I guess some of those are acceptable. I'd be critical of the 15 and 17 pound assemblies, but this guy didn't attempt to match mount anything.

He said he also insists on static balance only. So I have weights only on the inner bead of the wheel (clip weights). He removed all of the tape weights and didn't install any new. I'm not sure he installed the clip weights correctly because the first time I got to about 65 mph, I heard a loud pop and a few clucks from the LR. I figured the weight flew off. Inspection at home...yep, sure enough...I lost the one weight on the LR tire. Nice.

I'm not sure I trust anything he did or wrote anyway. On the vehicle inspection sheet, I apparently have 9/32" of tread depth remaining on all (even though they really have 12/32"), and all the tires went out with 38 psi (actually, 33 psi). I don't accuse him of making up the road force numbers, but none of the other data he hand wrote is correct, so I'm curious.

So I'm pretty frustrated with it. The vibration does change a little bit each time they touch it -- it IS in the wheel/tire assembly somewhere. Unfortunately, if Firestone's go/no-go gauge on road force is 26 pounds, it's going to have to be pretty shaky to fail that test.

So I'm likely stuck with these. I'm tired of spending hours sitting in Firestone waiting rooms. If I felt adventurous, I'd take the car to a local Goodyear dealer who has road force balanced tires for me before, and if they can show how screwed up it is, I can recoup the cost of the balancing from Firestone. But that's a $100 risk I don't want to take right now. I guess I'll see if I can live with these tires for the next few years.

 

[DuckRyder]

That is infuriating.

I think I would be going up the chain of command at Firestone - rather loudly.

The worst part is that I'd be willing to bet that the GSP9700 could get all of those down.

Put your zip code in at:

http://www.gsp9700.com/search/FindLocations.cfm

And head over to the closest Honda dealer with a Road Force Balancer. They will likely understand what a CRV will tolerate...

 

[DuckRyder]

Also with many new car dealer getting into the replacement tire business, it is possible they could warranty the tire or tires for you with Firestone.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Good point -- I've also thought of taking it somewhere else with the (true) story that Firestone doesn't seem willing to make these work. Any opening they have to prove a competitor wrong is likely one they'd take.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I stopped at the Honda dealer on the way home tonight. I was so impressed with the tire guy, I made an appointment on the spot, and will pay out of pocket on Monday for him to fix these tires. Highlights from the conversation:

(1) He said that Honda says that 24# is the limit. I asked him if I shouldn't feel anything at 15# or 17# (the highest of mine). He said that he'd probably be able to feel it, and sort of validated my experience -- it's not terrible -- but it's still there (the vibration).

(2) He mentioned dynamically balancing the tires. I told him the Firestone guy specifically said that he static balanced them. Honda guy confirmed, "you mean he only put weights on one side?" Yes. "No manufacturer recommends static balancing anything. If he said that he static balanced them, then he's already wrong."

(3) It came up in conversation that I couldn't get him to do anything about the road force numbers -- they were under 26 pounds, so they were "in spec". Honda guy asked, "oh wait...so he didn't even try to index the tires?" No. "Oh yeah, I should be able to get them better than that then."

Their normal mount-and-balance is $89. Plus balancer time. They gave me a not-to-exceed price of $129.99, if they had to remove and match-mount every tire. He said that if the tire and wheel are mis-matched by less than 90 degrees, he probably wouldn't index them. But if more than 90 degrees, he said it should help.

I've had good success in the past getting reimbursed for road force balancing. Sears paid me back for taking their tires to a local Goodyear store to find one bad one in a set that wouldn't balance. BJs paid me back for taking their tires to that same Goodyear store to have the tires road force balanced because their machine didn't work. If Honda fixes these tires, I'm going to go back to Firestone with the invoice and see if they'll give me some good will consideration on that. If not, I'll call Firestone corporate. If no luck there, then I'll just vote with my wallet the next time I buy new tires.

 

[DuckRyder]

Well that certainly sounds encouraging.

 

[CapriRacer]

My thoughts:

Anything under 10 pounds should be good. If the vehicle requires something less than that, I'd advise getting rid of it. Please note: I know of vehicles out there like that!!

Yes, the Firestone guy is part of the problem. He has his head up his ..... Wait, I'm not allowed to swear, am I?

I hope the Honda guy can fix it - and what I see here says it is quite likely.

 

[friendly_jacek]

IMHO, some B/F places are awful and then several miles away they are wonderful.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I carried the CR-V to Bryan Honda this morning, where the tire guy did his magic on them. Only one needed indexing on the wheel. All needed balancing. One tire had no weights on it. At least one had stacked clip weights (not sure how that's possible). He said it just looked very sloppy.

Tires are much better now. I still don't think they're perfect, but they're acceptable. Honda charged me only $59 because they had to match-mount just one of the tires. I was going to try to get reimbursed from Firestone, but for only 59 bucks, I won't even bother making the trip over there. I'll just hope I don't have any tire-related issues before these wear out, at which point my shadow will darken the door of a different retailer.

 

[HangFire]

I would go back to give the story on Static Balancing and sloppy work. Refund or no refund, the Firestone shop needs to know their "senior tire guy" is an idiot.

 

[DuckRyder]

Glad they got it mostly straightened out...

Be interesting to know how much road force they actually had.

I do agree I think I would at the very least write a letter to firestone corporate outlining your frustrations and experience. You shouldn't have to, but if you don't this guy will keep on doing his thing...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Some follow-up. I crawled under the car last night to look at weights, and saw that he wrote the road force in # on the inside sidewall of each tire. Three of the tires measured at 12#. The last tire, he had to re-index, and it was 12# after the index. He marked indexing lines on the wheel and the sidewall of the tire on that one. He said that he generally doesn't index if it's within 90 degrees of where it should be, or if the machine determines that there's not much improvement to be had. He said that there's a point of diminishing returns where the customer pays for him to make an improvement that you really can't feel.

Also: I don't know if he does this as a matter of practice, or if he did it because that's how they came to him, but he lined up all of the wheel center caps so that when the valve stem is at the bottom of the wheel, the Honda "H" is pointing up and reads correctly. It's a sign of a technician who's at least paying attention to what he's doing. (It annoys me when I have tires re-balanced and the center caps are pointed any which way afterwards.)

I drove up to about 75 mph this morning and the tires are glass smooth above about 68 mph. I still feel a flutter between about 62 and 68 mph, but it's improved. The flutter sort of comes and goes, and it seems to be excited by certain road conditions. I can feel it on brand new asphalt more than on older asphalt. Perhaps there's a rhythmic pattern in this new asphalt that resonates with my exact tire diameter or something. Our MDX (with ever so slightly larger tires) doesn't flutter on this same asphalt at the same speeds, nor did our MDX's tires installed on the CR-V.

Either way...12# of road force all around (good, I think)...dynamic balance feels good...I'm out only 60 bucks...and I'm done messing with it!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Glad you got it sorted!

It's a good feeling when you get something fixed right by someone who takes their job seriously.

I would write the dealer and let them know your positive experience.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Glad you got it sorted!

It's a good feeling when you get something fixed right by someone who takes their job seriously.

I would write the dealer and let them know your positive experience.


+1, glad it all worked out. Based on your experience, would you do the 422's next time around?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Based on your experience, would you do the 422's next time around?


Not sure what I'd try next. I won't buy Destination LE2s again. Not just because of the balancing issues, but because of the flat spotting problems with this set. The previous set of LE2s didn't exhibit the flat spotting. This second set has, and it's pretty moderate even in warmer weather. I don't look forward to the cooler weather with these tires.

Interestingly, I surmise that neither set of LE2s I've had have been defective. I think I've just been plagued with incompetent tire technicians and/or equipment that was not calibrated correctly. I believe I suffered the same problem with BJs a few years ago installing Michelins on our Acura. We went through three sets of tires, and to BJs' credit, they always were happy to install another set. But I had a local tire shop balance them and they got them right the first time they touched them.

Given my frustrating experience with the Firestone stores in town, I probably wouldn't buy a Bridgestone/Firestone at this point. Given my positive experience with the Honda dealer, I might be persuaded to see what their prices and policies are on tires. This one seems to be pushing the tire business lately. They have the OE Continental CrossContact LX in stock that comes new on CR-Vs. I hear generally good things about those tires.

My other front-runners were the General AltiMax RT43 and the Cooper CS5 Grand Touring. I really like the Coopers. Might use them next...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I would write the dealer and let them know your positive experience.


It's already written -- going in the mail this afternoon!

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Some follow-up. I crawled under the car last night to look at weights, and saw that he wrote the road force in # on the inside sidewall of each tire. Three of the tires measured at 12#. The last tire, he had to re-index, and it was 12# after the index. He marked indexing lines on the wheel and the sidewall of the tire on that one. He said that he generally doesn't index if it's within 90 degrees of where it should be, or if the machine determines that there's not much improvement to be had. He said that there's a point of diminishing returns where the customer pays for him to make an improvement that you really can't feel.

Also: I don't know if he does this as a matter of practice, or if he did it because that's how they came to him, but he lined up all of the wheel center caps so that when the valve stem is at the bottom of the wheel, the Honda "H" is pointing up and reads correctly. It's a sign of a technician who's at least paying attention to what he's doing. (It annoys me when I have tires re-balanced and the center caps are pointed any which way afterwards.)

I drove up to about 75 mph this morning and the tires are glass smooth above about 68 mph. I still feel a flutter between about 62 and 68 mph, but it's improved. The flutter sort of comes and goes, and it seems to be excited by certain road conditions. I can feel it on brand new asphalt more than on older asphalt. Perhaps there's a rhythmic pattern in this new asphalt that resonates with my exact tire diameter or something. Our MDX (with ever so slightly larger tires) doesn't flutter on this same asphalt at the same speeds, nor did our MDX's tires installed on the CR-V.

Either way...12# of road force all around (good, I think)...dynamic balance feels good...I'm out only 60 bucks...and I'm done messing with it!


First, the tire guy at Bryan Honda knows his stuff.

Second, it seems odd that all 4 tires read 12#. I wonder if that is a trigger point for the tech.

It does seem that the problem has been fixed. All that flutter I think has more to do with your vehicle than anything else. (We talked about vehicle sensitivity earlier!)

 

[Hokiefyd]

I thought it was odd that all four tires were marked 12#. He said Honda's reject point is 24#. That said, they were all within 10-17# according to Firestone, so maybe just variance in the machines.

I'm beginning to think that the new pavement I drive on during my commute is interacting with these tires in some way that's causing the pulsing flutter. I had a church meeting downtown last night and drove home on a road that I don't regularly drive, and had occasion to drive 60-65 mph for about 4 minutes on one stretch, and I have to say that I really couldn't feel the same flutter that I do on my commute route. It may have been there, but it was masked by coarseness of the older asphalt.

As I said before, I'm satisfied at this point. I do believe the tires are round and properly balanced. I do think that this is the first time they've been properly balanced, at least with this new set. I don't perceive the flatspotting as bad, either, so that may be a function of imbalance before or maybe the tires are breaking in some or something. I also admit to being hypersensitive about this stuff, so take any complaint I have with tires with a grain of salt! Some wouldn't notice what I paid to have fixed this week.

I should also say that I do genuinely like the tires. They're soft and quiet, and handle well. With the deeper tread, they are a bit squishy right now, but that'll clean up over time as the tread wears. Traction is good, and I've been impressed with wet road grip as well (in addition to hydroplane resistance). Deep tread certainly helps a tire cut through water, but these seem to do an exceptional job. I said before that I wouldn't buy the LE2s again, but that may have been an over-reaction.

I'll certainly update this thread as time goes on. Heck, by the time I have enough miles on these to make a meaningful review, they may have the LE3 out...