Has anyone actually heard of or experienced a FRAM filter failure? These filters are put down because of perceived or real construction issues. But I have never heard of anyone who uses them having a failure, some people religiously over a long period of years experience a failure. A side note I used them for the first 75k of my car.
Any Actual FRAM failures?
- Thread starter harper
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A road racer who posts on the Neon board I frequent posted last year or so that he had an engine crater on him in a big way. He attributed it to gremlins, hard running & bad luck, until he took the engine apart, & began to find bits of cardboard throughout the engine, stopping up oil passages; a very bad thing at 7000+ rpm. His oil filter? Fram.
I have some personal experiences and also I heard some stuff from the internet.
There was information on the internet to the effect that some motorcycle racers were injured when FRAM oil filters failed and oil got on their tires. I have no way to check to see if this information is correct or not.
I used FRAM oil filters myself until I experienced problems with two of them on two different vehicles.
One car was a Plymouth Duster with the slant six engine. I bought a FRAM for it (or course-I was using FRAM all the time). I very carefully checked to make sure that it was supposed to be the correct oil filter. Well, oil would not stay in that filter and I had to buy an expensive Mopar oil filter for my car, which DID work. Back in those days, Mopar made its own oil filters.
Later on, I owned a Toyota Corolla. I did an oil change on it and there was no oil whatsoever in the oil filter (a FRAM). I had carefully checked to make sure that was the correct FRAM for the car. I bought a Toyota oil filter and had no more problems.
By this time, and I think with some justification, I was becoming kind of upset with my favorite brand of oil filter. Remember, I am telling you personal experience, not what somebody told me. I started to use strictly OEM oil filters and when it became apparent that the car manufacturers were starting to buy their oil filters from FRAM, Purolator, or whoever, I tried other brands.
Overall, I am not very impressed with the state of quality of oil filters made in this country. On the other hand, Bob was able to obtain some low wear UOAs using FRAM oil filters and Schaeffer's Oil. Maybe it does not matter in the long run what oil filter you use. Maybe the air filter is more important-I don't know.
This has been my experience. Now lets see somebody come along and try to pound me because of my personal experience.
There was information on the internet to the effect that some motorcycle racers were injured when FRAM oil filters failed and oil got on their tires. I have no way to check to see if this information is correct or not.
I used FRAM oil filters myself until I experienced problems with two of them on two different vehicles.
One car was a Plymouth Duster with the slant six engine. I bought a FRAM for it (or course-I was using FRAM all the time). I very carefully checked to make sure that it was supposed to be the correct oil filter. Well, oil would not stay in that filter and I had to buy an expensive Mopar oil filter for my car, which DID work. Back in those days, Mopar made its own oil filters.
Later on, I owned a Toyota Corolla. I did an oil change on it and there was no oil whatsoever in the oil filter (a FRAM). I had carefully checked to make sure that was the correct FRAM for the car. I bought a Toyota oil filter and had no more problems.
By this time, and I think with some justification, I was becoming kind of upset with my favorite brand of oil filter. Remember, I am telling you personal experience, not what somebody told me. I started to use strictly OEM oil filters and when it became apparent that the car manufacturers were starting to buy their oil filters from FRAM, Purolator, or whoever, I tried other brands.
Overall, I am not very impressed with the state of quality of oil filters made in this country. On the other hand, Bob was able to obtain some low wear UOAs using FRAM oil filters and Schaeffer's Oil. Maybe it does not matter in the long run what oil filter you use. Maybe the air filter is more important-I don't know.
This has been my experience. Now lets see somebody come along and try to pound me because of my personal experience.
i had this fram one time i was holding it and dropped it and the corner of the filter nailed my big toe coz i was wearin sandals.
fram caused me personal injury
on an unrelated note, my wife is the woman who spilled mcdonalds coffee on herself.
fram caused me personal injury
on an unrelated note, my wife is the woman who spilled mcdonalds coffee on herself.
Just a final note. I never noticed any problems with FRAM oil filters until the oil filters started to be mounted in weird ways on vehicle engines-upside down, sideways, etc. As soon as adbvs became important, I started to see problems. I didn't hear about the cardboard endcaps and plastic valves until later, when the Oil Filter Study came out on the internet.
But judging from what Bob has discovered using Schaeffer's Oil and FRAM oil filters, maybe we should all be using an oil filter that has the maximum flow possible, and not worry about how small of particles it can trap. Perhaps we would get the lowest wear in UOAs using the best oil we could find, the best air filter, and an orange can FRAM.
But judging from what Bob has discovered using Schaeffer's Oil and FRAM oil filters, maybe we should all be using an oil filter that has the maximum flow possible, and not worry about how small of particles it can trap. Perhaps we would get the lowest wear in UOAs using the best oil we could find, the best air filter, and an orange can FRAM.
I have seen alot of Chevy and Dodge engines with valve trai noise that disapeared once the filter was changed from Fram! I doubt that most would ever know if the filter failed. How many people cut their filter open to check them out? How many people tear down their own engine when it fails. How many people would spot the cardboard in their engine as unusual? I am thinking that most say 98% of people do not do their own maintence. Any filter can fail but some seem to fail more then others. The small amount of filter media does not bother me it is the cardboard!!! I do not want any cardboard anywear near my lubrication system. If champion can make the insides out of stamped steel and sell them for $1.67 with more filter media and turn a huge profit then Fram(Honeywell) is just being greedy beyond belief!!!
[ July 03, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
[ July 03, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
Everytime I use a Fram, the car acts up. Search for some topics about Fram. Stay away from them.
[ July 03, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Intelman34 ]
[ July 03, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Intelman34 ]
Pluto, same here. Used Frams for over 9 years on my truck with the inline 6(300). For the entire time it ALWAYS clacked like a ba**ard upon starting for a short bit. Changed oils thinking it was that and still the ungodly clacking. Finally went and put a Motorcraft filter back on and wouldn't you know there is beautiful silence upon start ups from then on! I'm sure the oil starvation caused by the leaky adbv caused some longterm engine wear. I also had 2 of them blow up to the point of almost bursting. I caught them in time. NO Frams ever again! Also had to return many because the seat gasket was loose and useless.
Whimsey
Whimsey
Anecdotal evidence from people I'll neither ever meet nor know their true identities is all well and good, but, someone show or refer me an archived TSB from ANY car manufacturer stating flat out that any specific brand of nationally available oil filter was PROVED to be the cause of engine damage in service, or the case number from legal action in North America in which any specific brand of nationally available oil filter manufacturer had a judgment entered into record as its product being responsible for engine damage.
[ July 04, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ July 04, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Ray,
I think your standard is very high, perhaps excessively so.
The input based on experience, given here by members, is excatly what the poster asked for.
Fred...
I think your standard is very high, perhaps excessively so.
The input based on experience, given here by members, is excatly what the poster asked for.
Fred...
Thanks guys! With RayH's response I thought maybe I accidently got onto the ABA lawyers site.
Whimsey
Whimsey
GMan-II why not email AC/Delco or GMGOODWRENCH. I am sure they would be happy to tell you just that!
You know, harper just asked if anybody had some personal experience with a FRAM oil filter failure, or knew of such a failure. Some people gave examples, and now somebody is acting like we need a lawyer or something.
In order for this web site to be effective, people must be able to discuss the good and the bad of motor oil, oil filters, etc. If we don't dare mention a bad experience with a motor oil or oil filter or whatever, this site will lose its effectiveness. I think if I was the CEO of an oil filter company, I would visit this site to see what people thought about my oil filters. The people working under you might give you only positive news, and shield you from any negative news.
In addition, personal experience has some value. You can't depend on an oil filter engineer being present when an oil filter does fail. You may have to rely on the testimony of the non experts who probably were present-Joe Blow and Sally Jane. I am sorry-but that is called the 'real world.'
What is going to happen to this site if somebody threatens legal action when a person presents a bad UOA? We can only see the good UOAs because if somebody presents a bad UOA of Brand X, we have to worry about being sued?
Nobody dares to present information that a certain air filter is poor quality, because we are all afraid of being sued?
Don't tell anybody that Brand Q diesel engine oil has been suspected of ruining diesel engines, because we may get sued?
When I came to this site I switched to Chevron Supreme motor oil. Why? Because Chevron Supreme tested better in VOAs and UOAs than the brand of motor oil I had been using. If everybody at this site was afraid of legal action all the time, I never would have found out that the brand I had been using had rather negative VOAs and UOAs.
How can we communicate effectively with each other and how can we determine the good products from the bad unless we can communicate freely without fear of some kind of legal action or intimidation?
I dare you to try to find one other web site where you have some chance to determine motor oil quality. The average person without a web site like this has probably zero chance to determine what brand of motor oil is quality and what brand is junk. They all meet API and SAE requirments, right? That is all you are going to get from the other web sites. At the other web sites you will not see VOAs and UOAs of motor oils. Chevron, Mobil, Exxon, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mystik, Conoco, Kendall, Valvoline, etc., etc., etc. Without VOAs and UOAs, how do you find the good ones, unless you are a lubrication expert. If we can't present the bad VOAs and UOAs, how do we find out which ones to avoid?
Let people at this site communicate without fear-if you disagree with what they say, tell them why you disagree-politely. Don't start talking all this stuff-'You say that Brand X oil filter failed on you. Well, now I want engineering proof of the failure.' Give me a break! We can't rely on the guys word? Either he is telling the truth or he is lying. If you disagree with what the guy is saying, tell him why you disagree!
In order for this web site to be effective, people must be able to discuss the good and the bad of motor oil, oil filters, etc. If we don't dare mention a bad experience with a motor oil or oil filter or whatever, this site will lose its effectiveness. I think if I was the CEO of an oil filter company, I would visit this site to see what people thought about my oil filters. The people working under you might give you only positive news, and shield you from any negative news.
In addition, personal experience has some value. You can't depend on an oil filter engineer being present when an oil filter does fail. You may have to rely on the testimony of the non experts who probably were present-Joe Blow and Sally Jane. I am sorry-but that is called the 'real world.'
What is going to happen to this site if somebody threatens legal action when a person presents a bad UOA? We can only see the good UOAs because if somebody presents a bad UOA of Brand X, we have to worry about being sued?
Nobody dares to present information that a certain air filter is poor quality, because we are all afraid of being sued?
Don't tell anybody that Brand Q diesel engine oil has been suspected of ruining diesel engines, because we may get sued?
When I came to this site I switched to Chevron Supreme motor oil. Why? Because Chevron Supreme tested better in VOAs and UOAs than the brand of motor oil I had been using. If everybody at this site was afraid of legal action all the time, I never would have found out that the brand I had been using had rather negative VOAs and UOAs.
How can we communicate effectively with each other and how can we determine the good products from the bad unless we can communicate freely without fear of some kind of legal action or intimidation?
I dare you to try to find one other web site where you have some chance to determine motor oil quality. The average person without a web site like this has probably zero chance to determine what brand of motor oil is quality and what brand is junk. They all meet API and SAE requirments, right? That is all you are going to get from the other web sites. At the other web sites you will not see VOAs and UOAs of motor oils. Chevron, Mobil, Exxon, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mystik, Conoco, Kendall, Valvoline, etc., etc., etc. Without VOAs and UOAs, how do you find the good ones, unless you are a lubrication expert. If we can't present the bad VOAs and UOAs, how do we find out which ones to avoid?
Let people at this site communicate without fear-if you disagree with what they say, tell them why you disagree-politely. Don't start talking all this stuff-'You say that Brand X oil filter failed on you. Well, now I want engineering proof of the failure.' Give me a break! We can't rely on the guys word? Either he is telling the truth or he is lying. If you disagree with what the guy is saying, tell him why you disagree!
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