antioxidants in dino multi 30's

[jorton]

Do current dino multi grade 30 weights have enough antioxidants(zinc I think) to prevent oxidation for 3000 mile OCI? 4500 miles?

Do these oils need oil treatment added in order to prevent oxidation?

The brand I've found with the highest zinc # so far is Havoline. Haven't checked Chevron or Quaker state yet. Pennzoil has one of the lowest zinc numbers.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by jorton:
Do current dino multi grade 30 weights have enough antioxidants(zinc I think) to prevent oxidation for 3000 mile OCI? 4500 miles?

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3000 definitely all SM oils, 4500 probably most. There are other antioxidants then Zinc compounds, Moly for one. 3000 miles is below most manufacturer recommendations for normal service and not a problem for modern oils. Now after that it's debatable. Check out the used oil analysis section so see how oils hold up past 3000 miles.

-T

 

[TomJones76]

Yes. Check out our used oil analysis forum.
Look for an analysis done by Schaeffer's. They state the % oxidization versus the maximum oxidization you should allow in your oil.
I think every single analysis I've looked at where the oil didn't have serious water, anti-freeze or gasoline contamination had acceptable oxidization values.
That being said, they almost all had non-zero values for oxidization, so I suppose the other answer to your question is "No oil on the market completely prevents oxidization, but the vast majority of oils on the market keep oxidization within reasonable bounds."

 

[jorton]

Then many brands have Antimony which replaces part of the zinc and serves the same function. Okay.

T-keith - Moly Basics from the main page didn't make mention of Moly having antioxidant properties.

TomJones76 - I saw in the VOA and UOA forums these dino multi 30's have zinc numbers 1/3 to 1/2 the amount as compared to synthetics and 15w40's. There aren't too many of those Schaeffer's reports for other oil brands from 2005.

Thanks, Joe

 

[TomJones76]

quote:

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Originally posted by jorton:
SNIP

TomJones76 - I saw in the VOA and UOA forums these dino multi 30's have zinc numbers 1/3 to 1/2 the amount as compared to synthetics and 15w40's. There aren't too many of those Schaeffer's reports for other oil brands from 2005.

Thanks, Joe

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Yeah. About the antimony, remember most oil labs don't test for it, yet anyway, and the way for a layman to detect its presence is to look for high sodium in a virgin sample. If you have high sodium in a used sample but not a virgin sample, that indicates accidental anti-freeze exposure in your motor oil.
You are correct that the Zinc and other additive numbers for a conventional API SL/SM 5W30 are way below what you'd expect to see on a Heavy Duty/Diesel oil, or a good synthetic.
To be honest, though, the diesel oils just flat out have to work harder in a different mission. We see more than adequate TBN retention in ANY OCI under 5000 miles, which leads me to believe that any legitimate motor oil has adequate anti-oxidants for 5000 miles.
I'm thinking that since almost no one goes past 7500 miles on non-diesel-non-synthetic motor oils, the oil marketers figure you'd rather not pay for any more additives than you'll actually need.
In my case, they're right.
I dug up some examples of what you're talking about from some VOA we have. I'd dig up more, but the wife has pronounced "NO MORE OF THAT STUPID OIL MESSAGE BOARD UNTIL YOU TAKE ME OUT TO DINNER MR. JONES!!!!" so I'm going to run now.
Examples:
Shell Rotella T 15W40 on 03/12/2005
Calcium 3711 Phosphorous 1300 Zinc 1399 Moly 2
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Chevron Delo 15W40 on 04/20/2005
Calcium 2985 Phosphorous 1171 Zinc 1320 Moly 220
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Havoline 5W20 on 03/27/2005
Calcium 725 Phosphorous 640 Zinc 781 Moly 406.
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Chevron 5W30 on 01/27/2005
Calcium 1931 Phosphorous 730 Zinc 853, Note Moly of 221

This link shows a whole MESSLOAD of oils in virgin analysis:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000310#000000

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Do current dino multi grade 30 weights have enough antioxidants(zinc I think) to prevent oxidation for 3000 mile OCI? 4500 miles?

Do these oils need oil treatment added in order to prevent oxidation?

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You have to realize that that there are more than just ZDDP's that act as anti-oxidant agents.


http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000023

speaks to anti-oxidants/oxidation inhibitors and

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000032

speaks to multifunctional additives that accomplish more than one additive task.

Third party additives like LC moderates oxidation and SX-UP has a number of organic and metallic anti-oxidants.