Another "Taxi" Study: Relationship of Engine Bearing Wear and Oil Rheology 872128

But you know...to your average BITOGer bee-boppin' around in their average vehicle...none of this matters. So few people push their cars anywhere close to what time on a track is like and I'm not talking about "I floor it sometimes to get on the highway." So the worry from some folks buying newer vehicles calling for thinner oils is to me, unfounded. I would run whatever basically the manufacturer called for in any new car I'd buy for normal daily use. My Focus is happily running along at 10 years/125K on 5W20 aand that car may see some track use this year by my son....maybe I'll splurge and bump it up to Supertech 5W30 ;)
 
^^^ Yeah, whatever floats people's boat. All that I know is I like headroom when it's free for those times when bee-boppin' around turns into something more, lol.
 
From the Toyota GR Supra OM. Note API 0W-30 ... but only up to 1 qt ... pushing CAFE man, lol. Also note OM comment about track use ... so of course they aren't going to recommend a certain viscosity for "track use".

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Then put in something thicker than 0W-20. 😄
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The kind of track driving deemed appropriate:
iu
 
If some were able to understand the study I presented from 36 years ago ( and other studies) you would know that some experimental 20 grade oils of the time worked just fine. Just as good as thicker oils and for 100,000 miles. And in older engines not specifically designed for thinner oils. The experimenters admitted that their oils were not as good as commercial oils of the time. And now oils are much better and able to withstand fuel dilution otherwise they would likely not recommend 8, 12, or 16 grade oils.

I conclude that oils of today are usable even with grades lower than 20. And that fuel dilution will not occur to the degree nor effect wear as it did as much in the "lesser" 20 grade experimental oils of 36 years ago. Also, even with oil films that many say are near zero the wear is normal in these thin oils. So there must be more to it than a simple value of MOFT that some are weighing in as the main and possibly only factor. Just looking at what we now have to use for motor oils there MUST BE more to it than just MOFT, otherwise none of these oils would work without destroying the motors.

Multiple graphs show that MOFT is less in thinner oils but none show that lesser MOFT = more wear. And there is evidence that these thin oils (with the lease of MOFT values ) are very usable. Billions of miles in millions of cars running 20 grade oils for 25 years just fine, is just not enough evidence of their value for some people.

Ali
 
And now oils are much better and able to withstand fuel dilution otherwise they would likely not recommend 8, 12, or 16 grade oils.
No oil "stands" fuel dilution. There is no magic oil formulation or additive that helps prevent viscosity lose from fuel dilution. When viscosity decreases, so does MOFT ... a law of Tribology that no magic oil formulation can change.
 
No oil "stands" fuel dilution. There is no magic oil formulation or additive that help prevent viscosity lose from fuel dilution. When viscosity decreases, so does MOFT ... a law of Tribology that no magic oil formulation can change.
The fuel dilution boogie man just isn't an issue in the first place for many vehicles in normal use or at least enough fuel dilution to cause a viscosity drop (and therefore MOFT) of a magnitude to matter.
 
Multiple graphs show that MOFT is less in thinner oils but none show that lesser MOFT = more wear.
Sure they do ... many links to info that shows that around 2.5-2.6 cP HTHS the wear rate starts noticeably increasing in some components. I think you even eluded to that in another thread.
 
The fuel dilution boogie man just isn't an issue in the first place for many vehicles in normal use or at least enough fuel dilution to cause a viscosity drop (and therefore MOFT) of a magnitude to matter.
Sure ... but for those vehicles that are bad fuel diluters, starting off with a xW-20 or less isn't going in the right direction ... especially if doing long OCIs like may new vehicles are calling out in the OM. That was the main focus of the point.
 
Billions of miles in millions of cars running 20 grade oils for 25 years just fine, is just not enough evidence of their value for some people.
Is there enough anecdotal evidence that going with 0W-5 in vehicles that specs 5W-30 is "just fine enough"? :unsure: From the science and data on the effects of viscosity on MOFT and wear vs HTHS info, I'd say it's a risky move.
 
Sure ... but for those vehicles that are bad fuel diluters, starting off with a xW-20 or less isn't going in the right direction ... especially if doing long OCIs like may new vehicles are calling out in the OM. That was the main focus of the point.
I agree - in the case of a known fuel diluter backed with some real data, starting with a 30 vs 20 is better for a vehicle you are keeping "forever". My Altas is one - but of course I run Euro 40W in it so doesn't really matter (be fine with 30W as well TBH) as it's just a daily vehicle/no hard use.
 
Also, even with oil films that many say are near zero the wear is normal in these thin oils. So there must be more to it than a simple value of MOFT that some are weighing in as the main and possibly only factor. Just looking at what we now have to use for motor oils there MUST BE more to it than just MOFT, otherwise none of these oils would work without destroying the motors.
Sure it's more than just MOFT ... been said many times that the AF/AW additives that form the protective tribofilm is a factor too. But it will always be true the HTHS and the correstponding MOFT is the #1 factor in providing protection from parts rubbing together and wearing.
 
My Altas is one - but of course I run Euro 40W in it so doesn't really matter (be fine with 30W as well TBH) as it's just a daily vehicle/no hard use.
Looks like your another headroom proponent with that statement, lol
 
Looks like your another headroom proponent with that statement, lol
I just use the oil VW calls for - 502 00 so 40W. I've had 30W in before by teh dealer and it looked fine in UOA w/r to viscosity....newer Atlases with the 3.6 call for 504 30W and I'd run that no issue.

If I had a new Golf R calling for 504 30W oils and was tracking it...I'd use 40W. There, I said it.
 
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