Sure/agree. As has been stated adnauseum here, you can always go thicker but going thinner *may* be an issue (that *may* is what the OP I *think* is talking about/trying to show). I guess I read the OPs posts here as pointing out that the folks that go on and on about not running thinner OE-spec'd oils in their cars have nothing to worry about. Maybe I'm wrong. The 0W5 is more of an extreme case for shock-value and has clearly ruffled feathers here.
Another "Taxi" Study: Relationship of Engine Bearing Wear and Oil Rheology 872128
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My son is an auto tech at a GMC dealer. They have 2 bulk oils. 5W20 and 5W30. You get one of those two when you have your vehicle serviced. He reads the oil cap and uses what it says.
Yes, I would finally buy a car where I could agree with the viscosity recommendation in the owner's manual.Get a sports car that specs 0W-40 or 5W-50.
He cares!
Boomer's kids are generally Millenials. Silent Generation had the GenXers. 65-80 roughly is GenX. Millenials are 80-96 or so. I'm glad we are left out of everything. Let the Boomers/Millenials battle it out.
Also should say, my kids are GenZ/zoomers/whatever they are called all born in the 2000-2010 range can drive a manual. It's b/c we have one. If your family/friends don't have one, how can they be expected to learn to drive one? It's really not shocking that as time goes on this skill is going away and like many older things like cursive and long math, isn't necessary anyway beyond the gatekeeping car folks that want to make sure folks know they drive a stick at all times (better have that manual preservation society sticker on that back window!) and that so and so can't so clearly they aren't as cool/a car-person.
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It would be quite interesting to measure cumulative wear via oil consumption, as many types of oil consumption result from previous engine wear.
So running a vehicle with 20 weight versus 30 weight for 150k miles and then comparing oil consumption (with oil change intervals the same, perhaps every 5k miles).
"It would be quite interesting to measure cumulative wear via oil consumption, as many type of oil consumption results from previous engine wear.
So running a vehicle with 20 weight versus 30 weight for 150k miles and then comparing oil consumption."
A reasonable suggestion perhaps.
There is evidence that thinner oils are better on the rings. There is boundary lubrication involved and thinner oils can deliver the additives better. Also, thinner oils are generally more volatile so designing the experiment has issues.
Ali
So running a vehicle with 20 weight versus 30 weight for 150k miles and then comparing oil consumption."
A reasonable suggestion perhaps.
There is evidence that thinner oils are better on the rings. There is boundary lubrication involved and thinner oils can deliver the additives better. Also, thinner oils are generally more volatile so designing the experiment has issues.
Ali
A thinner oil could show lower wear and higher oil consumption than a thicker oil.
But... If all the wear is occuring at the top ring turn around point, Houston we have a problem, with possible emission system contamination and ring zone issues.
With the new crop of v. thin oils, consumption is a given as I understand it.
RE: the VW oil hijack - dye and chemical markers is nothing new it goes back at least a decade to TDI oil.
I think the EPA got it wrong with CAFE, which using thinner oils might give a tiny but negligable increase in MPG.
They overlooked the possible increase in oil consumption with thinner oils.
The smoke from a tail pipe from an engine that is burning oil is very toxic, smog producing and bad for people's lungs.
EPA should instead regulate oil burning after cars reach 75k miles, and fine automakers for how many quarts of oil a car burns
in between oil changes. It would force automakers to build engines that don't turn into oil burners.
Also, it would stop automakers from saying a quart every 1k miles is "normal operation".
This would really be good for the environment, save everyone money on top up oil, and also give us cleaner air.
Here is an example of old science to new science. On this link in figure #8 there are two bearings set to zero eccentricity and .0004 eccentricity. Notice the .0004 eccentricity that the MOFT is tighter than the zero eccentricity. The MOFT is at maximum with that clearance, bearings are stable. Maximum MOFT is controlled by bearing clearance and the shape of the bearing.
https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-con...mization-of-clearance-engine-professional.pdf
It is all dynamic to RPM and loading, but in general the viscosity needs to be thinner in tight clearances.
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The problem with that scenario and this is just my view on it, is that the main reason engines burn oil is due to the owners not maintaining them regularly. A large chunk of owners let the OCI’s drag out.
Additionally, we don’t need more intrusion from the G.
One doubt I have about new car dealerships that use bulk oil:
New car dealerships use the cheapest bulk oil they can find.
There is nothing stopping them from buying "recycled" bulk oil.
By recycled I mean: oil that was drained from another vehicle during an oil change, cleaned up, and put into a bulk oil container.
You could be getting someone's old oil that has sheared, has fuel dilution, and all it's additives used up.
Perhaps this fear is unfounded, but I prefer to bring my own pre-measured 5 quart jug of oil and filter to a local tire shop which only charges me $14 labor to do the oil change, and I can see the tech actually using my oil and filter through the service window.
I stopped going to dealers, as in my area they are charging $199 an hour labor, with their book time showing 2 hours for a repair that takes 20 minutes (they wrote the book), and with parts marked up 200% when ordered by the service dept during a repair.
I prefer to buy the genuine Honda parts online via a brick and morter Honda Dealer in a different state
that sells the parts at close to wholesale prices since they are trying to increase their internet parts business,
and then I have a trusted local mechanic who allows me to supply the parts and he installs them.
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I worked in five different dealerships I have little to no trust for them at all. Bulk oil was bought based on price. Not specifications.
The Honda dealer I went to - I asked the service tech what brand oil they were using, he said Gulf. I didn't even know Gulf made oil ( I thought only gasoline). Of course they don't let the ASE certified mechanics do the oil change, they have these young guys making minimum wage doing them.
So you're getting the lowest skilled "oil change person" + cheapest bulk oil, and then you pay $70 for the oil change.
Then, while waiting for some service, I went outside in their parking lot where they are selling used cars.
A sales person comes up to me and asks if I am looking for a used car. I told her I was just browsing but that I did have a question.
Why do some cars have a warranty sticker on the window and some don't.
She said the ones without the "used car warranty" sticker are the ones the dealer bought from an auction.
So this dealer was going to auctions to buy the cheapest (and probably worst) used cars they can find, and then was marking them up
to a large amount similar to a new car price. The unsuspecting buyer would think, I'm buying a used car directly from a new car dealer,
and assuming they only keep the best cars for their used car inventory, while this Honda dealer was selling the cars they bought in auctions
at huge price markup. I've lost all trust in dealerships. They all got too greedy.
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We did the same thing with the techs, and bulk oil. We also bought a lot of cars at auction and then "Certified" the cars. LOL After all it's a Pre-owned Honda being sold at a Honda dealership, it must be good.
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Things I just don't/haven't ever though of/worry about. I'd say this is likely a v. rare occurance at worst. To me, when you need to watch a tech change your oil you should be DIY'ing.
Got a controlled study reference link or two on that?
Might be somewhat true when oil is super cold, when all oil is 100s of times thicker compared to when at full operating temperature. Seems it would be more related to cold start wear then at operating temperature wear.
Re: Volatility - Higher Noack oils will "flash off" more in the very hot ring zone area. Running lower Noack oil will ensure better boundry lubrication and less deposits in the ring zone. This is why I look at Noack numbers when shopping for oil.
When was the last time you rode in a cab in a big city? It's not uncommon for the experience to feel like everyone is racing from light to light.
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