Another "Taxi" Study: Relationship of Engine Bearing Wear and Oil Rheology 872128

True - but lots of drone from the same folks who who have to be right …
I just speed read the fringe stuff or a handful of members - 80% is so predictable …
Yes, the predictability is like clockwork.
 
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There's a big difference between running a 20 in a vehicle that specifies it, and running a 5 in a vehicle that specifies a 30.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with running a 30 in a vehicle that specifies a 20 for some added HTHS and MOFT headroom - what's wrong or bad about that if someone wants more wear protection for all possible driving conditions?
Agreed. Nothing is bad about it. But you don't need to do it is my point repeatedly here. It's similar to the folks that: 1) run 91/93 in a vehicle that can take 87. Nothing wrong with it but a waste of money. 2) Folks that change their oil at v. short OCIs/right after purchase/new. Nothing wrong with it/waste of money. 3) worrying about one air filter vs another based on the minutiae of filtering efficiency and many other maintenance bits that make you feel good/your car/your money but don't need to be done. Run the 30, it's cool man. But I can also run the 20 in my Lexus that calls for 30 and there will zero negatives realized/measured.
 
The problem is some people just don't understand that concept, which is why we have countless threads like this which go on and on and on.
The problem is, folks don't understand the concept that the dude with the 5W understands that this isn't ideal or a great idea but chooses to do it to show something (still foggy to me as to what) about thinner oils but in the end, isn't telling anyone that this is a great idea and so it goes...on and on. I think everyone here fully understands running sub-20W in any vehicle not meant for it has some negatives. 5W guy is just trying to show what those might be in "the real-world". More power to him. I wouldn't do it and I've stated that.
 
True - but lots of drone from the same folks who who have to be right …
I just speed read the fringe stuff or a handful of members - 80% is so predictable …
Come on man...the fringe stuff IS the entertainment and fun about BITOG! If it wasn't it would be a single boring engineering paper.
 
To make sure/clear. TiGeo would not run sub-20W oil in a vehicle that the OEM didn't recommend it b/c TiGeo understands that some engineering of the bits has to happen for this to be done and not have a negative consequence. Further, TiGeo would run 20W in a GR Corolla or Supra and track it, however, would consider 30 or 40W oils without an issue for those cars/conditions. Finally, TiGeo would run 20W in a daily-driven vehicle (read: normal driving/conditions) where the OEM called for 30W or 30W in one that called for 20W without worry. TiGeo isn't really losing sleep over the OP wanting to play around with his own assets. I don't think running 5W in it is good for it. End.
 
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The problem is, folks don't understand the concept that the dude with the 5W understands that this isn't ideal or a great idea but chooses to do it to show something (still foggy to me as to what) about thinner oils but in the end, isn't telling anyone that this is a great idea and so it goes...on and on. I think everyone here fully understands running sub-20W in any vehicle not meant for it has some negatives. 5W guy is just trying to show what those might be in "the real-world". More power to him. I wouldn't do it and I've stated that.
Yes, and every time a thread like this comes up it will go in an never ending loop until it gets locked. IBTL.
 
Yes, and every time a thread like this comes up it will go in an never ending loop until it gets locked. IBTL.

That we can agree on!

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I believe higher HTHS, higher MOFT, with high efficiency oil+air filters and short oil change intervals provides less engine wear and less oil consumption over the long term. I use 5W-30 instead of 0W-20 in any vehicle I own. I also prefer ATF on the thicker side (KV 7.5 @ 100C like Amzoil Signature Series ATF fluid) and drain/fill my ATF fluid more frequently than most people, as the Automatic Transmission maintenance is often the most neglected part of a car.

In reading Ali's (AEHAUS) posts, his motivation seems to be to prove that thin oil is superior, and ultra thin oil is fine to use.
He seems to be extremely knowledgeable on oil viscosity, flow, additives, etc, and he is probably the most passionate advocater for thin oil on BITOG.

Since this is the opposite of my views I still find it interesting to monitor his posts just to see what he comes up with.
Maybe someday one of his tests will lead him to switch sides and join the people who advocate for using higher HTHS oil.
 
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So it appears Ford thought 5W-20 wasn't adequate, and they changed the recommendation to 5W-30 for them.

So that's my point, every car can benefit from that extra protection cushion from a 30 weight oil, so you're covered during extreme service that happens unexpectedly like climbing hills / long inclines at slow speeds due to traffic with engine temperature getting hotter than normal. The higher HTHS and MOFT (film thickness) you have, the more engine wear protection you have as parts of the engine reach 150C like the bearings and oil temporarily becomes thinner in those places due to the high heat and high RPM (even though average coolant temperature might be 100C).

If 20 weight and 30 weight oils cost the same, but 30 weight oils have higher HTHS and more film thickness, I don't see the advantage to using a 20 weight oil instead.
Great for Ford to change viscosity for the better on that engine. Car engineering takes into account many things and should not throw a viscosity in an engine that can not handle its target load. But that brings up the point that every engine has an optimum. Ford used to have a share of Mazda. Mazda targets small cars with less load. Been in the 20 weight for a long time.
 
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Great for Ford to change viscosity for the better on that engine. Car engineering takes into account many things and should not throw a viscosity in an engine that can not handle its target load.
Yes. In my case, Honda speced the Odysseys I drive for 20 weight oil. These engines are very hard on the oil due to high heat on the forward 3 cylinders and possible sludge. After several threads with Trav about 3 years ago (who is a mechanic who rebuilt some of these engines) enlightened me that he recommends running a thick 5W-30 or even a 5W-40 in these engines as that is what these same engines were speced for in Europe/Australia, and the thicker oil is more suited for these engines. It's a shame some bean counter worried about CAFE fines in Honda back in the early 2000's speced all their vehicles for 20 weight oils with some blanket approval.
 
Great for Ford to change viscosity for the better on that engine. Car engineering takes into account many things and should not throw a viscosity in an engine that can not handle its target load. But that brings up the point that every engine has an optimum. Ford used to have a share of Mazda. Mazda targets small cars with less load. Been in the 20 weight for a long time.
Again no it does not.
 
You're killing me here. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Also, Ford made a mistake specing several of their cars for 5W-20 in the 2000 to 2010 year range, only to re-spec them back to 5W-30 due to excessive timing chain wear with 5W-20.
 
When Overkill post it is gonna be a good read.

The visible metal is a problem, but I did not get out of the other thread how many miles are on this Lincoln - is it break in? possible machining swaff (it is not unheard of) or is it wear? If its wear and it is visible metal that is a very bad sign quite obviously.
As Zee noted, 29,000 and this oil was only run for around 1,000 miles. In Ali's own words, from that previous thread:
Do you know the amount of metals that is found in the "normal" run filters? I can say that metals are found in all good filters. I will admit that this is the most I have seen in My engines though.
I'm also not very sure this particular engine is the best choice for the experiment - I believe it is basically a Raptor engine, it is very high specific output, it is specked for a heavier oil and even the "regular" 3.5 EB is known for annihilating oil. But perhaps this is why he chose it for his test. They used to offer it as a crate motor and its probably a $12000.00 engine.

Still it is his and he has been properly warned.
I agree, choice of experiment vehicle was, well, interesting. It spec's a 5W-30, so an oil with an HTHS of at least 3.0cP right out of the gate, not xW-20 or an xW-16 or below, the latter which might have accommodations for this sort of experiment baked into the design.

But, I agree, this is his vehicle and his money, he's aware of the risk so I'm certainly not going to tell him to stop.
 
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