Another PP vs Ultra question

[sceva]

I have been running synthetic in my 08 Corolla since about 3000 miles and Pennzoil Platinum (5W30) since about 7K miles. With two Pennzoil Premium Synthetics now, PP and Ultra I have been watching to see if they were going to phase out PP but that does not appear to be the case, I have been considering going to the Ultra ( trying to decide if it's "better" and last week I picked up a 5qt jug at WMart I grabbed the Ultra 5W30 to use for my next OC since with a 3.00 coupon I had it made them virtually the same price.
I see the Ultra is SM oil while the Platinum is SN oil, both meet / exceed GM4178M and HT-06, and neither mentions Dexos1. At a $3.00 difference per Jug cost is not a factor.
SO; is Ultra the better oil? Any advantage/disadvantage in using SM rated oil over SN rated oil? Is one quieter than the other? What do you experts recommend?

 

[Dominic]

I think Ultra is the better oil for longer drains - it has a higher TBN if I'm recalling my VOAs correctly. They're both good oils, but I think the Ultra was created to fill the niche of more euro requirements.

 

[synthetic_crazy]

I have used both the PP and PU in my '99 Corolla and couldn't tell any difference(based solely on the sound and feel of the engine). I didn't run an analysis on either fill, but suspect there is essentially no wear difference. I would use either one with absolute confidence; they are both excellent oils.

One is not "better" than the other, it all comes down to the marketing of each oil.

I have to say though, that the Pennzoil synthetics have been the quietest of the synthetics I have used in the Corolla. My current fill of Mobil 1, while an excellent oil as well, produces a little more valve-train noise than the Pennzoil products.
You could run the cheapest oil on the shelf and that Corolla engine would still run forever. However, the love that you develop toward a Corolla compels one to use ONLY the best in motor oil lubricants.

 

[chubbs1]

ULTRA is the better oil, not by a huge margin but if you put the two in font of most BITOG pennzoil users they would pick up the ULTRA. I just changed some out of my Sonata for Synpower and Me and my bro could both tell that car ran quieter on the ULTRA. (I Trust both though).

Go Ultra!

 

[wallyuwl]

PP has recently been approved Dexos1.

 

[Eosyn]

Originally Posted By: synthetic_crazy

I have to say though, that the Pennzoil synthetics have been the quietest of the synthetics I have used in the Corolla. My current fill of Mobil 1, while an excellent oil as well, produces a little more valve-train noise than the Pennzoil products.
You could run the cheapest oil on the shelf and that Corolla engine would still run forever. However, the love that you develop toward a Corolla compels one to use ONLY the best in motor oil lubricants.


Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I just changed some out of my Sonata for Synpower and Me and my bro could both tell that car ran quieter on the ULTRA. (I Trust both though).
Go Ultra!


Everyone I know has told me to stay away from Pennzoil but the love of it here on BITOG and your posts of how quiet your engines run on PU or PP is beginning to change my mind. Really considering trying PP or PU or even P-HM once my Synpower stash runs out next oil change.

 

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
ULTRA is the better oil, not by a huge margin but if you put the two in font of most BITOG pennzoil users they would pick up the ULTRA. I just changed some out of my Sonata for Synpower and Me and my bro could both tell that car ran quieter on the ULTRA. (I Trust both though).

Go Ultra!


Want to hear some real noise--? drop in some M-1

 

[JavierG]

The first synthetic oil I used in my Ridgeline was PP. Have used PU for the last 3 OC. Both are excellent.

 

[NYSteve]

Originally Posted By: Eosyn

Everyone I know has told me to stay away from Pennzoil


Who and Why?

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Eosyn

Everyone I know has told me to stay away from Pennzoil


Who and Why?

Good question. Who are these people and what is their reasoning?

 

[Eosyn]

Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Eosyn

Everyone I know has told me to stay away from Pennzoil


Who and Why?

Good question. Who are these people and what is their reasoning?


The reasoning is because of the sludge build-up that occurred during the 80's decade or sometime in that era when many engines were ruined.

1. my father in law and boss at work. both said pretty much their mechanics opened up engines that had a thick film of sludge all over it and was told that the owners used Pennzoil. my boss was shown by a farmer who used pennzoil in his farm tractors, etc.

2. a friends' brother claims the same thing but added that Pennzoil wouldn't own up to it being their products and pretty much swept the whole thing under the rug from the public. So he hasn't trusted Pennzoil ever since.

3. my brother-in-law (master mechanic who runs his own shop) says the same thing as #1 above.

All above are using Quaker state, Castrol and valvoline. I've used all 3 and seems to work good except for QS because it caused my engine to run a louder/with more noise.

Now I know that is 30+ yrs ago and I'm sure they've improved their products but I understand that people who were once bitten, are now twice shy or fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on me mentality. Kinda like me with GM products, been burnt by them once, never again.

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
PP has recently been approved Dexos1.
what does that intail? Does all the "current stock" of PP on the store shelves meet the spec too? Or only the "new" stock? I know the PP and PU sits for quite a long time around this neck of the woods....people just aren't that into synthetics around here....

 

[FZ1]

For $3,why not use the Ultra? The PP did not seem as durable as M1 EP in my use,so I would prefer the Ultra vs. the PP.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
PP has recently been approved Dexos1.
what does that intail? Does all the "current stock" of PP on the store shelves meet the spec too? Or only the "new" stock? I know the PP and PU sits for quite a long time around this neck of the woods....people just aren't that into synthetics around here....


I think just the SN rated is Dexos1 approved. Older SM I don't think would be technically, though it's formulation might very well meet the spec.

 

[Slick17601]

Ultra is not HT-06 approved.

 

[Astro14]

They would both be great in your car...question, really, is one of drain interval.

My Corolla sees lots of short trips and I never drive it (kids do...), so I rely on the factory maintenance minder (5,000 miles) to change the oil. And at that short an interval, normally aspirated engine, the PP is just perfect.

For the longer drain interval on the turbocharged Volvo, I go with Ultra. Even at 7,500 miles though, the Ultra has plenty of TBN left and very low wear, so I could stretch that OCI out too...but I don't, for similar reasons...

What's your OCI?

For those Pennzoil bashers out there - I've had the oil pan off the Corolla at 75K (to fix a leak) - the bottom end on that engine looks brand new. Not only is there no sludge, there's not even any varnish. Taking a peek in the Volvo's crankcase with 142K on it (replaced the oil cooler gaskets) - it looks brand new as well, no sludge, no varnish, just clean metal.

The 70s were a long time ago. Things change. Pennzoil is good stuff.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

I've used both PP and PU in my Accent and can't tell a difference.

Let me get this straight- you are being told Pennzoil is a "no go" by someone that uses Quaker State. They must not be aware that both companies are owned by Shell. So Shell makes a garbage brand, not to be trusted, and a recommended brand? I don't think so. Use either one without concern, both are excellent.

 

[sceva]

Originally Posted By: Slick17601
Ultra is not HT-06 approved.


Someone should tell Pennzoil that then: On my jug of 5W30 Ultra it says meets GS4178M, HT-06 among others. The Product Data sheet also lists HT-06 for the 5W30 oil. http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/PENNZOILULTRAFullSyntheticMotorOil.pdf

I appreciate the answers given. For those who asked, I am running 5,000 mile OC intervals so it probably makes no difference whether I'm using PP or Ultra (or even a giood dino oil) I'll try Ultra for a while and see if I can tell a difference; if I can't I will use whichever is the significantly better buy when I pick up oil.

Thanks again

 

[Eosyn]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

For those Pennzoil bashers out there - I've had the oil pan off the Corolla at 75K (to fix a leak) - the bottom end on that engine looks brand new. Not only is there no sludge, there's not even any varnish. Taking a peek in the Volvo's crankcase with 142K on it (replaced the oil cooler gaskets) - it looks brand new as well, no sludge, no varnish, just clean metal.

The 70s were a long time ago. Things change. Pennzoil is good stuff.


I agree, the 70s-80s was a long time ago and with the bad rep they've had, I'm assuming they've improved and corrected whatever it was that needed correcting. I wold think they'd want to get their reputation back by making a superior product. Thanks for sharing the results of your oil pan and crankcase using Pennzoil.

Originally Posted By: HyundaiGuy

Let me get this straight- you are being told Pennzoil is a "no go" by someone that uses Quaker State. They must not be aware that both companies are owned by Shell. So Shell makes a garbage brand, not to be trusted, and a recommended brand? I don't think so. Use either one without concern, both are excellent.


Yes, that's what I was told. My family members use valvoline and castrol but the farmer uses QS

Pennz created some "bad blood" in my area and some aren't as forgiving.

I think I will give PYB a try with MMO in my cleaning cycle. If anything, hopefully, PYB will help remove some gunk with their "active cleaning agent". Thanks for the post about Pennzoil.

 

[Patman]

I know that UOAs aren't really 100% accurate when it comes to determining which oil will give longer engine life, but FWIW, my UOAs with Ultra are pretty much the same as they were with PP, with maybe a very slight advantage to Ultra.

I honestly don't see Ultra being around all that much longer though, it's now completely off the shelves of all the Walmarts in my area (I've checked about 10 different locations now)