Another MMO thread from an unbeliever

[Capa]

Some of you may know that a couple of years ago I tried MMO in the fuel tank and saw my mileage worsen in my Grand Caravan. I wasn't happy and didn't use it until very recently.
My mileage has plummeted since November and so I was desperate. I put in Techron Chevron (which I use every 3000 miles) with 5 ounces of MMO into my 21 gallon tank in my Lexus GS400. My mileage again seems to have dropped a little

but the car at idle would shake slightly and I always assumed that it was just a bad engine mount. Well, the slight shaking is completely gone! I wonder what it was? Any ideas?

 

[demarpaint]

Two things come to mind, winter blend and colder weather can and does lower mpg. As far as the smoother idle I experienced the same thing, time and time again with older engines that had some miles on them. I believe a UCL makes for a better ring seal which in turn gives a better idle in older engines. Opinions vary, and this usually leads to the naysayers sounding off, but what the heck its Friday!

Just for the heck of it, give TCW3 a try if you have any, 1 ounce/5 gallons of gas, and pay attention to the idle quality. You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[bourne]

I have recently started running MMO as well and have experienced similar results as yours. My mpg seem to have suffered a bit. The idle has become extremely smooth.

Smoothness I guess is attributed to the UCL properties of MMO, not sure why there is a drop in mpg. I have been wanting to try Redline SI-1 instead to see if that helps any. That will be going in the next tankful.

 

[demarpaint]

Are you guys comparing mpg figures with and without MMO during the winter and the summer? MPG will take a hit if the dose of MMO is too strong. I always found winter mpg lower, no matter what I do. Different fuel blend, richer start mix, longer idles, faster idle during warm up. Then me not wanting to turn the engine off in order to keep the heat going, not to have to listen to my wife complain about being cold should we make a short stop somewhere and she stays in the car.

 

[Zaedock]

Realistically, 4 oz per 10 gallons shouldn't really affect mileage. In my use, I never realized any perceptable difference.

As an experienced engine rebuilder, hot rodder, and off roader, I am weary of snake oils. I know that some folks here believe it doesn't do any good - and I respect that - but MMO has been a product that has demonstrated real results for me, especially in the fuel system.

 

[Capa]

To add a little context, I do use 100% ethanol free gasoline. I'm not sure if it is as affected with winter blend as 90/10 ethanol fuel?
On the slightly rough idle, sometimes at a stop light I would pop the automatic into neutral and the slight shaking would go away. In fact, when I noticed this week that the rough idle was gone, I popped it into neutral to see if there was a difference and there wasn't. I really wonder if it simply was the UCL or something mechanical?

 

[Clevy]

I read at the mmo forum that 4 ounces per 10 gallons was idea and to not exceed that amount because from that concentration and higher it does nothing.
I've only used the stuff once in my life. I do have an acetone/tc-w3 mix though that seems to help my equipment at work.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Capa
To add a little context, I do use 100% ethanol free gasoline. I'm not sure if it is as affected with winter blend as 90/10 ethanol fuel?
On the slightly rough idle, sometimes at a stop light I would pop the automatic into neutral and the slight shaking would go away. In fact, when I noticed this week that the rough idle was gone, I popped it into neutral to see if there was a difference and there wasn't. I really wonder if it simply was the UCL or something mechanical?


The only way to tell for sure is try a tank with MMO then two tanks without, and then a tank with MMO again. See if you notice a difference in idle and mpg. Honestly it would take a lot more than 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of gas to mess with mpg, my bet is on the colder weather.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Capa
To add a little context, I do use 100% ethanol free gasoline. I'm not sure if it is as affected with winter blend as 90/10 ethanol fuel?
On the slightly rough idle, sometimes at a stop light I would pop the automatic into neutral and the slight shaking would go away. In fact, when I noticed this week that the rough idle was gone, I popped it into neutral to see if there was a difference and there wasn't. I really wonder if it simply was the UCL or something mechanical?

It may have helped the spray pattern,letting the fuel evap more completely.
Just spitballing.

 

[LeakySeals]

Keep going with the Techron Concentrate Plus. Another bottle or 2 and you will see better results. Beyond that, change your front pre-cat o2 sensor, probably getting lazy. Controls the air/fuel mix.

I think Modern PEA additives like Techron Concentrate Plus are superior to old school MMO in the gas of a late model engine. My recent experiences with MMO in the gas were similar to yours. Seemed to choke on it. Its too "oil like", too thick. I got a permanent P0420 CEL using it. Probably overdosed, didn't measure. Don't have that problem with the low oil PEA additives.

I use MMO in the oil only. Its in the oil cleaning up the GP in my signature right now.

Here's a good read about Techron Concentrate Plus.
http://www.openroadpodcast.com/pdfs/CGLMediaTour.pdf

 

[NMBurb02]

Using in conjunction with the Techron complicates thing a bit, from my perspective. The smoother idle may be the result of the Techron, not the MMO.

I agree with dermapaint that a few more tankfulls with and without MMO are needed before drawing any conclusions.

On that note, have you finished that Techron/MMO tank, how many miles on the that MPG calculation, and any noticeable difference since running out the tank?

 

[Capa]

Guys, thanks for the suggestions, comments and link. Keep in mind that I have been using Techron consistently every 3000 miles and the shaking has been there the whole time. This is the first time I recall the vehicle not shaking on idle. I am a firm believer in Techron and will continue to use it, however, I do believe that MMO is the more likely candidate that helped eliminate the shakes. That or the combination of the two since this is the first time I have ever mixed the two.

I still have the MMO/Techron tank but both at the quarter and the halfway mark the mileage was down. At the halfway point I've been getting 190 miles and I hit it at 175 miles. I know that adding 4-5 ounces of MMO to a tank that holds 21 gallons shouldn't adversely affect mileage, but for whatever reason it has. Could it just be noise? Possibly. I do intend to run MMO Jan-March and so I will see if it was just an anomaly.

 

[demarpaint]

^^I'd stick with it, or do as I mentioned with switching off to see what if any effects it has on mpg. Techron before MMO is the way to go. In fact they even suggested using a good FI cleaner first in older vehicles, or vehicles that never had FI cleaner run through them, then use the MMO. MMO does some cleaning to injectors, keeps them clean and lubed, but it is not as good a cleaner as Techron or Red Line FI cleaner.

 

[Clevy]

Interesting. I look forward to your next run.

 

[kr_bitog]

it depends on how sensitive is the engine (O2 sensor & ECM), in my case 4oz per 10 gallon is always too much and the mpg will drop and acceleration will slow.
The best so far I have is about 2 - 2.5 oz per 10 gallon, interestingly with some highway driving and new PU it hits more than 18 km/l, where for the whole time my best is only 17 km/l.
Typically for mixed driving I only get 13-14 km/l.

 

[LeakySeals]

Run the MMO alone to get a better answer. If the rough idle goes away during MMO use but returns a tank or 2 after use, its probably a product effecting your octane levels. If the rough idle goes away and stay away for sever thousand miles, report that success!!!!!!

I really think you should buy a denso upstream af/o2 sensor. They generally never throw a failure code, they get lazy from the exhaust heat and a buildup of deposits on the sensor tip. A bad air/fuel mix will make you shake if its too rich, too lean. DONT use a bosch universal, DO use denso!

 

[Silverback]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I do have an acetone/tc-w3 mix though that seems to help my equipment at work.


I'm curious, what concentration?

 

[charbaby]

I can't say that I am a firm believer in MMO in EFI/VVT-i vehicles. But, I love it in carb'd engines large & small(V8's & OPE)

 

[KCJeep]

Vehicles have personalities when it comes to MMO, it's not a one size fits all in a bottle.

My Jeep benefits dramatically from MMO in the gas. I would not imagine putting gas in it without MMO at this point.

We've had several other vehicles that it made no difference in, so after trying it I discontinued MMO in them, there was no apparent gain.

I just experimented with it in our new KIA. Mpg actually went down. So it doesn't like it at all.

Doesn't surprise me, the KIA is a very new modern engine design, introduced by Hyundai, the 3.5 Lamda II V-6, in just 2010. My Jeep on the other hand has an engine that although upgraded along the way, it essentially dates back to the 60's. It's not much more than a glorified tractor engine. It LOVES the stuff ha ha. I think it's the UCL properties it takes so kindly to.

Different strokes for different folks... and engines.

 

[charbaby]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Vehicles have personalities when it comes to MMO, it's not a one size fits all in a bottle.

My Jeep benefits dramatically from MMO in the gas. I would not imagine putting gas in it without MMO at this point.

We've had several other vehicles that it made no difference in, so after trying it I discontinued MMO in them, there was no apparent gain.

I just experimented with it in our new KIA. Mpg actually went down. So it doesn't like it at all.

Doesn't surprise me, the KIA is a very new modern engine design, introduced by Hyundai, the 3.5 Lamda II V-6, in just 2010. My Jeep on the other hand has an engine that although upgraded along the way, it essentially dates back to the 60's. It's not much more than a glorified tractor engine. It LOVES the stuff ha ha. I think it's the UCL properties it takes so kindly to.

Different strokes for different folks... and engines.

I like your explaniations of each engine!
My vehicles are the same way

Our older '80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl loves the stuff.
Our new(er) V-Tech engines(Lexus 3.0L V6/Nissan 2.5L 4cyl) notice NOTHING at best. If 2001/2004 can be called new(er)!
At the worst, the Lexus will throw a CEL just about anytime a FSC or MMO is put in "even" per/directions