Another GM cooling system disaster

[Chris142]

This rolled in today. 03,Buick Regal with a 3.1L, 81,xxx miles. Entire cooling system is a rusty mess! Leaking coolant.

The coolant bypass is a metal pipe that runs between the upper and lower intake manifold halves. On the water pump end this pipe has a rubber hose, looking at a 3.1L this hose is on the front passenger side of the engine right next to the coolant air bleeder.

This pipe is not replacable w/o buying a whole lower intake manifold according to the local dealer.

Heres a bad pic of where it is with the upper intake off. The pipe runs between the 2 rows of injectors.

Heres the actual hole. This hole was right above the thermostat and the pipe is pressed into the lower intake just below the hole.

Heres a pic looking at the area from the belt end. See the pipe in the middle.

Heres my repair. Customer didn't want the expense of replacing the lower intake manifold so I cleaned the hole up and soldered it shut.

Should last untill the next weak spot rusts out.

At this point I was able to plug the other coolant hoses with the upper intake still off the car and pressure test it.

Car has the typical lower intake gasket coolant leak. I couldn't test those with the huge hole in the pipe. Customer still doesn't want to fix the gaskets.

When did GM go to the better intake gaskets?

I put a new stat in it since access to it at this point was easy. Old stat was stuck open. I put the engine back together and will finish the job tomorrow.

 

[tomcat27]

what a mess. and this owner will probably trade it in and the next owner will get stuffed. of course, GM is the true villian here. they should have backed up all of these bad cars with a real warranty. I dont believe that cars need to be maintenance free for 100k, but this whole cooling system debacle is a HUGE engineering mistake - and GM's handling of the whole mess has cost them 10's of thousands of customers - most of whom went flocking to asian brands. for years GM blamed it all on radiator caps. and customers. supposedly they went to a redesigned gasket in 05. and some of the newer engines (3.5, 3.9) dont run coolant thru the intake. I can understand why some people drain out the dexcool and refill with green coolant.

 

[crazycrak]

wow the customer wants you to half [censored] it glad they'll come back 6 mos later and with the same problem

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: crazycrak
wow the customer wants you to half [censored] it glad they'll come back 6 mos later and with the same problem

Honestly I didn't feel like replacing the lower intake anyway and was relieved when he didn't want to spend the big bucks.. I had this part done in about an hr.

 

[OilNerd]

Originally Posted By: Chris142

When did GM go to the better intake gaskets?


Can't say for the production change, but new gasket kits have been available to dealers since May '04.

Quote:

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-017 Date: May 26, 2004 ... New upper intake manifold and gasket kits have been released. These new kits will provide the dealer with the ability to get exactly what is necessary for a correct repair. In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design. ...

 

[raffy]

Wow, what a piece of trash! Is this because of the Dexcool or bad design or both?

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: raffy
Wow, what a piece of trash! Is this because of the Dexcool or bad design or both?
With out getting into the Dexcool debate all I can say is that whatever was used for coolant in this car turned into an acid and ate the pipe from the inside out.

The entire cooling system is coated with red rust from the coolant overflow bottle to the insides of the hoses.

 

[ZGRider]

Some on this site would simply say that the customer "neglected" the coolant and that Dexcool is not at fault.

But my question is...... Would this have even happened with G-05 as factory coolant fill?

Answer: Never !!!

Total Solution -- Never trust Dexcool and get it out of your car faster than a f@rt in the wind.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: crazycrak
wow the customer wants you to half [censored] it glad they'll come back 6 mos later and with the same problem

Which is probably half the reason why there was some of the problem to begin with...

 

[pbm]

I have Prestone AM/M in my 3.1 at the moment. I have read that it's a dexclone and I have read that it does not use 2-EHA. Which is true?

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Some on this site would simply say that the customer "neglected" the coolant and that Dexcool is not at fault.

But my question is...... Would this have even happened with G-05 as factory coolant fill?

Answer: Never !!!

Total Solution -- Never trust Dexcool and get it out of your car faster than a f@rt in the wind.


Not true. Not the coolant. Bad design. AND probably neglected.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

I had a similar problem with that (I think it's called the "Thermostat Bypass Pipe") with a 3.4. It was leaking badly from where it connected to the LIM. After a lot of research, I found there was a part number associated with something between the LIM and the pipe. It turned out to be GM red threadlocker, used as a sealant/glue. Horrible design, and I can't imagine my fix lasting long, even though it followed GM procedures.
Yours looks the same as the 3.4. The parts screen I looked at at the dealer, and at GM Parts Direct showed the 3.4 pipe as a separate part number (it was listed as an "Inlet Pipe under "Radiator and Components"). I can't find a similar part screen with the 3.1.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: pbm
I have Prestone AM/M in my 3.1 at the moment. I have read that it's a dexclone and I have read that it does not use 2-EHA. Which is true?

I looked at the bottle of it two days ago at the store. It says it has sodium 2-EHA, right there on the bottle. Double check it yourself. The amount of 2-EHA might be different from Deathcool, but it is still there.

 

[PT1]

"Heres my repair. Customer didn't want the expense of replacing the lower intake manifold so I cleaned the hole up and soldered it shut."

This should give you some indication as to why the system was neglected in the first place.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: PT1
"Heres my repair. Customer didn't want the expense of replacing the lower intake manifold so I cleaned the hole up and soldered it shut."

This should give you some indication as to why the system was neglected in the first place.

lol isn't that true!

 

[benjamming]

I can understand not wanting to replace the lower manifold, & have you fix the immediate problem. But they didn't want to replace the leaking gaskets either? Huh? A Fel-Pro problem solver gasket set is what $50? They've already paid for most of the labor. I don't get it.

 

[onion]

This is fairly typical of the GM 60-degree V6 engines. Good engine if you can keep coolant in them- that's the challenge.

I agree somewhat with PT1 in that Dexcool is not ENTIRELY to blame here- these intake gaskets are a terrible design... and were probably the initial cause of the failure. These gaskets will fail with or without Dexcool- though Dexcool facilitates the process. Subsequently running the engine for extended periods with low coolant is what likely led to the typical dex-sludge.

That said, it's been well-documented that Dexcool attacks these plastic intake gaskets. AND Dexcool's propensity to form a nasty iron oxide sludge when the engine is run low on coolant is well-documented. This vehicle will likely be plagued with overheating problems unless/until the cooling system is thoroughly flushed- and possibly until the radiator is rodded or replaced. So what MIGHT have been a relatively minor problem has become a major fiasco due to GM's choice of coolant.

A better coolant like G05 might not have prevented the intake gasket leak (though it would probably delay it- seeings how it doesn't attack the nylon gaskets), but it would have prevented the subsequent sludge/corrosion problem.

 

[fins]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Some on this site would simply say that the customer "neglected" the coolant and that Dexcool is not at fault.
But my question is...... Would this have even happened with G-05 as factory coolant fill?
Answer: Never !!!

Total Solution -- Never trust Dexcool and get it out of your car faster than a f@rt in the wind.


I just bought an 05 Suburban with 75,000 miles ........coolant looks good but I plan on flushing and replacing.
I thought about using G-05 or Peak Lifetime Global........any sugestions??

 

[doitmyself]

Kudos, Chris142.

I respect a mechanic that has ingenuity to make something work other than replacing the entire system. Yea, maybe false economics in the long run, but we don't know the owner's intentions here.

I've taken a leaky exhaust system to Midas or Tuffy only to be told that a total system replacement was mandatory at $600. Take it to a good mechanic and he says he can weld in a replacement section for $80 and it should last for another 2 years +/-.

Chris, I assume that you document the customer's wishes on the receipt!

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
I can understand not wanting to replace the lower manifold, & have you fix the immediate problem. But they didn't want to replace the leaking gaskets either? Huh? A Fel-Pro problem solver gasket set is what $50? They've already paid for most of the labor. I don't get it.
The labor to R&R the upper intake is only 1.5 hrs. the labor to R&R the lower intake which included removing the valve covers and push rods since the intake cant be removed w/o pulling the pushrods is 7 hrs.

Plus the cost of a new lower manifold and the cost would have been astronomical.