Another Dealership Upsell Story

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Yesterday I dropped off my Ranger at the Ford dealer to get the airbag recall done (well, one of the airbag recalls done - both driver and passenger side airbag was recalled. I got the passenger side done. Parts for driver side are on national back-order.) Service writer asks me if I want anything else done while it's there (oil change, etc)- no thanks, just the recall.

Same service writer calls this morning - says truck is all set, but they found some "recommended services" I should have done. Here we go...
Brake fluid flush
Coolant flush
Air induction service
Air filter is "dirty"
Front brakes worn

I just said no thanks to all of it and hung up shortly after.

Now let me address all of these "recommended services." Keep in mind truck has 64k miles and I do all repairs and maintenance on my vehicles myself:

Brake fluid flush: I flushed the fluid probably 3 years ago. I would really like to know how they determined that it needs to be changed. My guess is most people never change their brake fluid and they're assuming it's never been done before. I'll have to check my maintenance records. In fairness, it may be due again, if I stick to my 3 year/30k miles schedule. But I'll do it myself just like last time, thanks.

Coolant flush: I would REALLY like to know how they determined the coolant needs to be changed, considering I just replaced my radiator and thermostat about 4 months ago, and refilled with a FRESH mixture of G-05 and distilled water! As soon as I hung up the phone, I regretted not confronting them about that. But I will mention it when I pick the truck up.

Air induction service: Unnecessary junk that's a big profit maker for the dealer IMO. Pass.

Air filter: Why are these monkeys opening up my air box? The airbag is in the dash. Just fix the airbag. I know, I know. They're trying to make more money off me, but playing it off as doing me a favor by giving me a complimentary inspection and alerting me (the clueless owner

) to potential issues. Last I checked (a few months/less than 1k miles ago) the filter wasn't that dirty and still had lots of life left. But I'll check it when I get home and replace it myself if necessary.

Front brakes - Replaced pads and rotors myself about 30k miles ago. In fairness, I haven't checked them lately, and I wasn't impressed with the EBC pads I used, and they may well be worn out already. But again, I'll check them myself and replace them myself (again), if necessary.

And I get to do it all over again when I bring it back for the other airbag recall; God only knows when parts will be available and that happens. Whopee.

Does anyone know how much money (if any) the dealer made off the recall repair? Seems like they weren't making any money and really wanted to get something more out of me.


If they're working on commissions they try. Not everyone says no.

I had my Liberty in for warranty work, and they gave me a report card of sorts with all the things they checked. I was shocked. I knew everything was fine, the shock was they didn't try and up sell me anything. The report card was stellar. Go figure. Maybe they're trying to win me over for service and save the up selling for another time? Maybe they're actually honest??? LOL Either way I won't be going back unless some other warranty issue arises.

They did a good job as well.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Yesterday I dropped off my Ranger at the Ford dealer to get the airbag recall done (well, one of the airbag recalls done - both driver and passenger side airbag was recalled. I got the passenger side done. Parts for driver side are on national back-order.) Service writer asks me if I want anything else done while it's there (oil change, etc)- no thanks, just the recall.

Same service writer calls this morning - says truck is all set, but they found some "recommended services" I should have done. Here we go...
Brake fluid flush
Coolant flush
Air induction service
Air filter is "dirty"
Front brakes worn

I just said no thanks to all of it and hung up shortly after.

Now let me address all of these "recommended services." Keep in mind truck has 64k miles and I do all repairs and maintenance on my vehicles myself:

Brake fluid flush: I flushed the fluid probably 3 years ago. I would really like to know how they determined that it needs to be changed. My guess is most people never change their brake fluid and they're assuming it's never been done before. I'll have to check my maintenance records. In fairness, it may be due again, if I stick to my 3 year/30k miles schedule. But I'll do it myself just like last time, thanks.

Coolant flush: I would REALLY like to know how they determined the coolant needs to be changed, considering I just replaced my radiator and thermostat about 4 months ago, and refilled with a FRESH mixture of G-05 and distilled water! As soon as I hung up the phone, I regretted not confronting them about that. But I will mention it when I pick the truck up.

Air induction service: Unnecessary junk that's a big profit maker for the dealer IMO. Pass.

Air filter: Why are these monkeys opening up my air box? The airbag is in the dash. Just fix the airbag. I know, I know. They're trying to make more money off me, but playing it off as doing me a favor by giving me a complimentary inspection and alerting me (the clueless owner

) to potential issues. Last I checked (a few months/less than 1k miles ago) the filter wasn't that dirty and still had lots of life left. But I'll check it when I get home and replace it myself if necessary.

Front brakes - Replaced pads and rotors myself about 30k miles ago. In fairness, I haven't checked them lately, and I wasn't impressed with the EBC pads I used, and they may well be worn out already. But again, I'll check them myself and replace them myself (again), if necessary.

And I get to do it all over again when I bring it back for the other airbag recall; God only knows when parts will be available and that happens. Whopee.

Does anyone know how much money (if any) the dealer made off the recall repair? Seems like they weren't making any money and really wanted to get something more out of me.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Yesterday I dropped off my Ranger at the Ford dealer to get the airbag recall done (well, one of the airbag recalls done - both driver and passenger side airbag was recalled. I got the passenger side done. Parts for driver side are on national back-order.) Service writer asks me if I want anything else done while it's there (oil change, etc)- no thanks, just the recall.

Same service writer calls this morning - says truck is all set, but they found some "recommended services" I should have done. Here we go...
Brake fluid flush
Coolant flush
Air induction service
Air filter is "dirty"
Front brakes worn

I just said no thanks to all of it and hung up shortly after.

Now let me address all of these "recommended services." Keep in mind truck has 64k miles and I do all repairs and maintenance on my vehicles myself:

Brake fluid flush: I flushed the fluid probably 3 years ago. I would really like to know how they determined that it needs to be changed. My guess is most people never change their brake fluid and they're assuming it's never been done before. I'll have to check my maintenance records. In fairness, it may be due again, if I stick to my 3 year/30k miles schedule. But I'll do it myself just like last time, thanks.

Coolant flush: I would REALLY like to know how they determined the coolant needs to be changed, considering I just replaced my radiator and thermostat about 4 months ago, and refilled with a FRESH mixture of G-05 and distilled water! As soon as I hung up the phone, I regretted not confronting them about that. But I will mention it when I pick the truck up.

Air induction service: Unnecessary junk that's a big profit maker for the dealer IMO. Pass.

Air filter: Why are these monkeys opening up my air box? The airbag is in the dash. Just fix the airbag. I know, I know. They're trying to make more money off me, but playing it off as doing me a favor by giving me a complimentary inspection and alerting me (the clueless owner

) to potential issues. Last I checked (a few months/less than 1k miles ago) the filter wasn't that dirty and still had lots of life left. But I'll check it when I get home and replace it myself if necessary.

Front brakes - Replaced pads and rotors myself about 30k miles ago. In fairness, I haven't checked them lately, and I wasn't impressed with the EBC pads I used, and they may well be worn out already. But again, I'll check them myself and replace them myself (again), if necessary.

And I get to do it all over again when I bring it back for the other airbag recall; God only knows when parts will be available and that happens. Whopee.

Does anyone know how much money (if any) the dealer made off the recall repair? Seems like they weren't making any money and really wanted to get something more out of me.


Reminds me of the jiffy lube scams that were uncovered by local news stations in California. They're up on YouTube, if you're interested. I don't think they check, they just bank on the customer being uninformed. I'm quite certain Midas did this to me when I was about 20 years old, and I fell for it. Will never go back.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: rat
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I don't think it's a conspiracy as much as it is just the commission based incentives. Humans respond to incentives. Put any of us on commission pay, and we are liable to do some shady things.



This. Unless you have worked in a dealership you have no idea the pressure that is on you to sell sell sell! The majority of dealer principles don't care about what a customers car actually needs as long as the service department is making money. There is tremendous pressure on service managers and service advisors to sell additional services and flushes so the owners cab go to their "20 group" meetings with impressive stats. You don't want to be called to the carpet when the owner comes back from one of these meetings after finding out how many other dealers are making more profits than he is.


Having been on the inside, why do you think so many dealerships still adopt this model of high pressure commissions and selling tactics? These guys have to know they are bleeding customers after the warranty period to independent shops, which tend to use a different business model that seems fairly successful (if they are good mechanics), right?

I don't know how dealers survive long term in the age of the internet if they prioritize short term profits over long term reputation (and long term profits).

 

[Andrew1972]

I am totally fine with them suggesting. The folks who bite help subsidize the $30 oil changes or free tire repair that are loss leaders.

Or even free tire rotations etc.

 

[rat]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: rat
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I don't think it's a conspiracy as much as it is just the commission based incentives. Humans respond to incentives. Put any of us on commission pay, and we are liable to do some shady things.



This. Unless you have worked in a dealership you have no idea the pressure that is on you to sell sell sell! The majority of dealer principles don't care about what a customers car actually needs as long as the service department is making money. There is tremendous pressure on service managers and service advisors to sell additional services and flushes so the owners cab go to their "20 group" meetings with impressive stats. You don't want to be called to the carpet when the owner comes back from one of these meetings after finding out how many other dealers are making more profits than he is.


Having been on the inside, why do you think so many dealerships still adopt this model of high pressure commissions and selling tactics? These guys have to know they are bleeding customers after the warranty period to independent shops, which tend to use a different business model that seems fairly successful (if they are good mechanics), right?

I don't know how dealers survive long term in the age of the internet if they prioritize short term profits over long term reputation (and long term profits).


Why so many do it is an interesting question. My short answer is because they can.
My theory is that so many dealerships are now in the hands of the second and third generation owners that no nothing of the value of long term thinking. They want now, and more now, and if you can't perform enough for them, there is a line behind you waiting to take your place and maybe work for less than what you make. There are precious few dealerships that actually strive to do business honestly and value employees that sacrifice and work hard. You can tell a lot about a dealership by how much employee turnover they have. As far as independent shops go, the manufacturers are doing their very best to make sure that customers have no choice but to come to the dealership when they need service due to all the special tools and diagnostic equipment required. We get a ton of customer pay work in here, and lots of maint. (gravy) work. But this place also has a good long standing reputation in this area. The dealership I work at is the exception unfortunately, not the rule. I could write a book from my experiences with my past at other dealerships.

 

[VeeDubb]

Rat,
thanks for the explanation.
What does your current dealership do differently at the management level and in terms of incentive comp versus other places you've been at?

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I recently took my Elantra in to the local Hyundai dealer, bracing myself for high pressure sleazy sales tactics, and much to my surprise, they were very friendly, courteous, and only fixed what I asked, as well as a couple recalls I wasn't aware of. This was very unexpected, I hope they keep this trend, and that more will follow.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
I recently took my Elantra in to the local Hyundai dealer, bracing myself for high pressure sleazy sales tactics, and much to my surprise, they were very friendly, courteous, and only fixed what I asked, as well as a couple recalls I wasn't aware of. This was very unexpected, I hope they keep this trend, and that more will follow.


Wow, that is amazing! That's a good dealership to do business with....I gotta say Hyundai has been impressing me more all the time...

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
I recently took my Elantra in to the local Hyundai dealer, bracing myself for high pressure sleazy sales tactics, and much to my surprise, they were very friendly, courteous, and only fixed what I asked, as well as a couple recalls I wasn't aware of. This was very unexpected, I hope they keep this trend, and that more will follow.


Wow, that is amazing! That's a good dealership to do business with....I gotta say Hyundai has been impressing me more all the time...


+1 and I have been a strict GM guy. I am considering a santa fe after my Malibu dies.

To speak about experiences with up charging, it has mostly been the local garages versus the dealerships with me. Granted both realized not to screw around with that stuff after I have spoken with them. They also gave a similar experience with my mother which they have both realized after when I called them unhappy. I am sure I am blacklisted from many of the local garages/dealerships but the work that I want to have done get's done.

 

[RooflessVW]

A lot of dealer bashing here.

When I worked as an SA, I did the best I could to make an honest recommendation. This was much easier with our regulars. Ok last time you just had an oil change and rotation, this time you're due for a cabin filter, in 6 months you're due a brake fluid change by time or we can do it early, etc...

A first time customer with 120k, well, I don't know the history. So I explain when certain items are due and of course I try to sell them service. I always took the time to explain what was recommended by the manufacturer as maintenance and why, as well as what was a condition-based recommendation and why. My customers were always invited to look over the car with myself and the tech, as well as inspect/keep any removed parts unless there was a core fee.

More than once I had a customer way over due on brake fluid, coolant, timing belt, fuel filter, transmission service, or with broken sway bar endlinks or dangerous ball joints and they had no idea. Some of these owners even had their vehicles "regularly check." Some people think all cars need is a trip to Sears or Jiffy Lube once every now and then.

To the OP, I see nothing wrong with what your SA did, aside from the lack of questions towards the vehicle's history.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The answer is stupidly simple. They do not even bother checking these things. They look at the age of the vehicle and mileage and base their recommendations on that. They probably did not even lift the hood up.


+1 bingo. They looked at an older truck with 64k and came up with a list of upsells.


Also known as a wallet flush.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb


Having been on the inside, why do you think so many dealerships still adopt this model of high pressure commissions and selling tactics? These guys have to know they are bleeding customers after the warranty period to independent shops, which tend to use a different business model that seems fairly successful (if they are good mechanics), right?

I don't know how dealers survive long term in the age of the internet if they prioritize short term profits over long term reputation (and long term profits).


I've also worked at a number of stores over the years from the mid 80s on, and most of it is short term, quick gains, they are MOSTLY GREEDY....sure there are exceptions, but they are VERY few.

But it is true I can't count how many times our stores tried to "soak" the wallet of even long time good customers, and you can guess, those stores LOST those cash cows because of incredible shortsightedness and greed.

 

[turtlevette]

I'm dreading dealing with this airbag recall. I vowed to never take a car of mine to a dealer. I wonder if we can replace the air bags ourselves. That's how adverse I am to dealers. They'll mess up more than they fix.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
I recently took my Elantra in to the local Hyundai dealer, bracing myself for high pressure sleazy sales tactics, and much to my surprise, they were very friendly, courteous, and only fixed what I asked, as well as a couple recalls I wasn't aware of. This was very unexpected, I hope they keep this trend, and that more will follow.


Wow, that is amazing! That's a good dealership to do business with....I gotta say Hyundai has been impressing me more all the time...


You and me both. I'm on my third Hyundai, I've owned a 2000 Accent, an 05 Elantra, and now a 2010 Touring Wagon. Their quality improves by the year. In my biased, but humble opinion, I'd go as far as to say that Hyundai is now equal to Nissan in quality, perhaps even having a slight edge over Nissan. Hyundai would be in 3rd, while Toyota and Honda battle for 1st. Just my amateur opinion.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'm dreading dealing with this airbag recall. I vowed to never take a car of mine to a dealer. I wonder if we can replace the air bags ourselves. That's how adverse I am to dealers. They'll mess up more than they fix.



You are not wrong, I know the industry rag called Automotive News
(Crane Publishing) has printed articles on how stores can "profit" from what would otherwise be a costly debacle...when the customer arrives to have their recall performed the service department can inspect the vehicles and likely sell the customer high value services....LOL or, they can try and sell them a new car while they are in the waiting room.

Gosh I hate that nasty mouthpiece for the industry, AN. Obnoxious and belligerent in their approach...If you want to get inside the head of the typical $tealership mentality, you should read that monthly rag sometimes libraries carry it, and some of the articles are online, but most are not, for obvious reasons, they don't want the consumer to see the "dirt".

 

[Gasbuggy]

Don't provide any email or address information to the service department when you go in for recall. I'm hard to trick but Cadillac got me with the form I needed to fill out when I participated in a costly safety recall last summer. I did not provide an email address because I figured they would use that for marketing. But now they spam my home address with service reminders and coupons via the mail. I already called and politely requested they remove me from the list. I even waited on the phone while I was removed from the system. I still get the dealers [censored] sent to me.

 

[02SE]

Yep, Dealerships, like any other Business, are in Business to make money. Some are more ethical than others.

My advice is to always do your due diligence.


I also have to say I'm grateful that I no longer work in consumer car repair.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
I recently took my Elantra in to the local Hyundai dealer, bracing myself for high pressure sleazy sales tactics, and much to my surprise, they were very friendly, courteous, and only fixed what I asked, as well as a couple recalls I wasn't aware of. This was very unexpected, I hope they keep this trend, and that more will follow.


Again, that is why I love my BMW dealer; one time my SA told me, "The power steering return hose on the ti is a little damp, but I wouldn't advise replacing it until it starts to drip- and that probably won't happen for another 50,000 miles."

Another time the steering angle sensor set a fault on our '04 X3, his advice? "The fault was only set once; it's almost certainly an isolated glitch- so I'd just ignore it unless it happens again." That was over 2 years and 25,000 miles ago- and the sensor issue has not returned.

But I could easily see a less scrupulous dealer/SA saying "You have to replace that sensor now!!! A failure could kill you!!!"

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Well, I went to the dealer to get my keys and paperwork. Truck is still at the dealer though. I have to wait for my wife to get out of work so she can give me a ride to pick it up. I asked the service writer (nicely), "How did you know the coolant needed to be replaced? 'Cause I just changed it 4 months ago when I replaced the radiator." She said they just go by time and mileage and it would've been due, but since it was already done, "don't worry about it."

I still think that's a bad way of giving recommendations. What if I didn't know anything about cars and had the radiator replaced by a shop a few months ago? What if I didn't know that changing coolant is part of the procedure when replacing a radiator? I would've thought my coolant needed to be changed and might have approved it.


They go by time/mileage, and if they don't have a service history for your car then they're going to recommend services based off of the information that they have. They could lose their job if they don't do this. The only thing worse than a sucker is someone who comes online and complains about something that is a non-issue to begin with.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Well, I went to the dealer to get my keys and paperwork. Truck is still at the dealer though. I have to wait for my wife to get out of work so she can give me a ride to pick it up. I asked the service writer (nicely), "How did you know the coolant needed to be replaced? 'Cause I just changed it 4 months ago when I replaced the radiator." She said they just go by time and mileage and it would've been due, but since it was already done, "don't worry about it."

I still think that's a bad way of giving recommendations. What if I didn't know anything about cars and had the radiator replaced by a shop a few months ago? What if I didn't know that changing coolant is part of the procedure when replacing a radiator? I would've thought my coolant needed to be changed and might have approved it.


They go by time/mileage, and if they don't have a service history for your car then they're going to recommend services based off of the information that they have. They could lose their job if they don't do this. The only thing worse than a sucker is someone who comes online and complains about something that is a non-issue to begin with.


And like I said before, that's a BAD way of making recommendations. You think that makes me worse than a sucker? Too bad, get lost, stay out of my thread, thanks.