And this is why the Dealership Model needs to change.

billt460 said:
If you pay list or over, you're on the side that got bent over.
Click to expand...
MSRP is an abbreviation for “manufacturer’s suggested retail price.” Just as it reads, a car’s MSRP comes from the manufacturer to the dealer with a suggested retail price, also known as “list price.”

MSRP has little to do with sales price. The local market sets the sales price.
 
DwightFrye said:
I have been advising a friend who is shopping for a new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. Her 15 year old Prius is no longer worth repairing.
None of the dealers within a 100 mile radius have one in stock with the color or options she wants. All of them are adding a $5000 ADM. I suggested she go on the Toyota website and try the "build your car" feature and be prepared to wait 60-90 days but at least she would get exactly what she wanted which is important as she plans on keeping it for 15 years like she did her trusty Prius.

Four out of the five dealerships she contacted told her that they couldn't order the car and to buy what they either had on the lot, or had in transit and arriving shortly. This is typical car salesman B.S. The last dealer agreed to order the car as she had optioned it and also negotiated cutting their ADM down from $5000 to only $2500. She is giving them her business although grudgingly because of the ADM.

This is the way it is today. The dealer's approach is if you don't like it, someone else will come along and pay their price.
Isn't it nice to be able to negotiate only paying half of the additional markup ?
Click to expand...
When I was buying our Rav4 in 2019 - the California Toyota dealers were charging mark up above list on the hybrids even back then - according to the Toyota boards at least. Everyone in California wants a hybrid. Did she price an ICE? If she drives a lot of highway miles, the MPG difference is actually negligible. City driving its much better however.

My local Toyota dealer quoted me MSRP on either ICE or Hybrid last fall. I told them I would wait and they offered another $1000 off. Wait was 3 to 6 months. Maybe its changed, maybe not.

I do believe the dealers have become predatory. I don't know how many hundreds of dealers we have in South Carolina but there all owned by one of a handful of "dealer networks". Its the illusion of competition.
 
DwightFrye said:
I have been advising a friend who is shopping for a new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. Her 15 year old Prius is no longer worth repairing.
None of the dealers within a 100 mile radius have one in stock with the color or options she wants. All of them are adding a $5000 ADM. I suggested she go on the Toyota website and try the "build your car" feature and be prepared to wait 60-90 days but at least she would get exactly what she wanted which is important as she plans on keeping it for 15 years like she did her trusty Prius.

Four out of the five dealerships she contacted told her that they couldn't order the car and to buy what they either had on the lot, or had in transit and arriving shortly. This is typical car salesman B.S. The last dealer agreed to order the car as she had optioned it and also negotiated cutting their ADM down from $5000 to only $2500. She is giving them her business although grudgingly because of the ADM.

This is the way it is today. The dealer's approach is if you don't like it, someone else will come along and pay their price.
Isn't it nice to be able to negotiate only paying half of the additional markup ?
Click to expand...
That's the problem with falling in love with a specific car. If one doesn't maintain their ability to walk away, they're at the mercy of the dealer.
 
DwightFrye said:
I have been advising a friend who is shopping for a new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. Her 15 year old Prius is no longer worth repairing.
None of the dealers within a 100 mile radius have one in stock with the color or options she wants. All of them are adding a $5000 ADM. I suggested she go on the Toyota website and try the "build your car" feature and be prepared to wait 60-90 days but at least she would get exactly what she wanted which is important as she plans on keeping it for 15 years like she did her trusty Prius.

Four out of the five dealerships she contacted told her that they couldn't order the car and to buy what they either had on the lot, or had in transit and arriving shortly. This is typical car salesman B.S. The last dealer agreed to order the car as she had optioned it and also negotiated cutting their ADM down from $5000 to only $2500. She is giving them her business although grudgingly because of the ADM.

This is the way it is today. The dealer's approach is if you don't like it, someone else will come along and pay their price.
Isn't it nice to be able to negotiate only paying half of the additional markup ?
Click to expand...
Seems to me a recent Consumer Report suggested the Subaru Forester as the better option to a Toyota RAV4. I'm not home at the moment so I can't check my old issues. Maybe your friend should check out the Subaru.

Being fixed on what you want to buy can lead to your paying too much.
 
AZjeff said:
I've not bought a lot of new cars but I've never bought my 2nd choice. For someone who keeps cars for 15 years the 2500 ADM is $166/year.
Click to expand...
I looked it up online. Consumer Reports is saying that the Subaru is better (actually quite a bit better) than the RAV4. They rate the Subaru as #1 of 24 compact SUVs. The RAV4 is #13 of 24. And it's even a bit cheaper.

Would the friend like it? I dunno. But I'd say it's worth a look.
 
DwightFrye said:
........ Her 15 year old Prius is no longer worth repairing....... None of the dealers within a 100 mile radius have one in stock with the color or options she wants. All of them are adding a $5000 ADM.....
Click to expand...
$5K over list will pay for a LOT of repairs on that Prius. Even if it buys her just a couple of years, until this insane economy settles down. It could very well be worth it.
 
My dealer is not a crook. They sell Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Honda and Toyota. They do not add anything to any vehicle ever. If it isn't on the factory supplied Monroney sticker it isn't on the vehicle. Zero pressure. Zero hassles. Zero games. They don't even sell you a car. They assist you in buying a car. A distinct and important difference. I don't have any interest in the dealership other than being a repeat satisfied customer. I would like to get the SPIF so if anyone wants to work with the best dealer around please ask me for a salesman referral. Oh, and if you buy from them you could also opt to eat at The Original Mexican Cafe, in business since 1916 and delicious. https://www.classicgalveston.com/
 
Folks love the capitalism until it works against them. Simple. Don't buy it of they won't give it to you at the price you are willing to pay. Why is MSRP some magical force field that cannot be crossed? Years of paying peanuts for cars/significant discounts and now that gate is closed and people are upset. I'll happily continue to drive my fleet. If I had to buy a vehicle I'd negotiate the price as far as possible and that's the value...regardless of the MSRP.
 
Last edited:
Until the vast majority of people realize that they (the dealer) needs you more than you need them, this crap will keep going on.
I've always been able to buy what I want at a price I want to pay.
It takes homework. It takes knowledge. It takes commonsense and a backbone.
But above all, it means controlling the impulse of instant gratification.
I may have to go some distance to do it, but that's fine.
 
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