An observation: lots of off-brand summer tires in Europe?

[edyvw]

M+S tires without 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol is by standards a summer tire in EU. Its not about a tire shortage.

??? It is Mud+Snow. It is not by standards.
Depending on the market, most European cars come with summer tires, and when I say summer, not M+S.
The all-season thing, M+S, is only making a break in Europe last decade, sort off as most markets where M+S is desirable have winter tire laws, so defeats the point.

 

[nobb]

I noticed this in asia too. Tires are important, but I think we tend to over emphasize the practical differences between any two brands. The reality is that in an urban environment that's relatively low speed and not under severe weather conditions (eg. snow and ice), any modern tire is likely good enough. Tires also have way more safety factor in them than we give credit for.

 

[edyvw]

Barum, Sava, Tigar, etc. are VERY old brands that wee acquired last 30yrs by big names. Tigar had probably best tires for MIG 21 fighter jets that were going through them like crazy due to landing speeds. So, there is actually a lot of know how these companies had. Sava always had very, VERY good snow tires. Better in many aspects than some top brands.

 

[Fish Fry]

Barum, Sava, Tigar, etc. are VERY old brands that wee acquired last 30yrs by big names.

Yes, it's all about brand recognition and how much money a brand invests into marketing/advertising- nothing to do with the quality of the products per se.

 

[CapriRacer]

Yes, it's all about brand recognition and how much money a brand invests into marketing/advertising- nothing to do with the quality of the products per se.

Well, not exactly.

Dealers and distributors are aware of how much money they can charge for their various brands - and quality matters here. Is it the only thing that matters? Hardly, but it is a factor. Tire shops don't want to deal with quality issues.

 

[Bjornviken]

??? It is Mud+Snow. It is not by standards.
Depending on the market, most European cars come with summer tires, and when I say summer, not M+S.
The all-season thing, M+S, is only making a break in Europe last decade, sort off as most markets where M+S is desirable have winter tire laws, so defeats the point.

i was referring to any tires that lack 3 peak mountain snow flake. Is a summer tire by new standards. Even if its M+S tire or a "all season" tire.

 

[CapriRacer]

i was referring to any tires that lack 3 peak mountain snow flake. Is a summer tire by new standards. Even if its M+S tire or a "all season" tire.

This is really interesting.

In the US we have Summer Tires (don't meet M+S standards), All Season Tires (meet M+S standards), All Weather Tires (meet Alpine standards aka 3PMSF), and Winter tires (also meet Alpine standards). But we also have All Terrain tires, which don't seem to have a standard.

In Europe, they also have Nordic tires (meet Ice Grip standards).

So Europeans: What is the consensus about All Season vs All Weather?

 

[Bjornviken]

This is really interesting.

In the US we have Summer Tires (don't meet M+S standards), All Season Tires (meet M+S standards), All Weather Tires (meet Alpine standards aka 3PMSF), and Winter tires (also meet Alpine standards). But we also have All Terrain tires, which don't seem to have a standard.

In Europe, they also have Nordic tires (meet Ice Grip standards).

So Europeans: What is the consensus about All Season vs All Weather?

Getting big bill from the police if i use a tire without 3PMSF at Winter time

 

[edyvw]

i was referring to any tires that lack 3 peak mountain snow flake. Is a summer tire by new standards. Even if its M+S tire or a "all season" tire.

That doesn’t make sense. Not that it is not true, but how practically?

 

[Bjornviken]

That doesn’t make sense. Not that it is not true, but how practically?

What does not make sense to you, ours laws?

 

[edyvw]

What does not make sense to you, ours laws?

No, summer tires being M+S as a standard, not a law. I am familiar with winter tire laws. But, I missed EU standardization where suddenly summer tires can be M+S.

 

[Bjornviken]

No, summer tires being M+S as a standard, not a law. I am familiar with winter tire laws. But, I missed EU standardization where suddenly summer tires can be M+S.

M+S are tire manufacturers claims nowdays. But there are also M+S tires that have the 3pmsf. Wich can be used as a winter tire(or classes as one) But those without 3PMSF are put in the summer tire category.

The 3PMSF symbol is standardized and controlled by EU authorities, guaranteeing that the product meets the conditions of rigorous testing and is suitable for operation in difficult weather conditions.

 

[edyvw]

M+S are tire manufacturers claims nowdays. But there are also M+S tires that have the 3pmsf. Wich can be used as a winter tire(or classes as one) But those without 3PMSF are put in the summer tire category.

The 3PMSF symbol is standardized and controlled by EU authorities, guaranteeing that the product meets the conditions of rigorous testing and is suitable for operation in difficult weather conditions.

I know all that!
But M+S has its standards. Manufacturer can claim whatever they want, that doesn’t mean it is summer tire. By that logic, Michelin Pilot Super Sport could have M+S designation. There are standards that tire has to meet to be M+S. I have never seen 3PMSF tire without M+S designation.
M+S tires are NOT summer tire. It is all season tire. Manufacturer can claim their summer performance, but that is just their marketing claim.

 

[Bjornviken]

I know all that!
But M+S has its standards. Manufacturer can claim whatever they want, that doesn’t mean it is summer tire. By that logic, Michelin Pilot Super Sport could have M+S designation. There are standards that tire has to meet to be M+S. I have never seen 3PMSF tire without M+S designation.
M+S tires are NOT summer tire. It is all season tire. Manufacturer can claim their summer performance, but that is just their marketing claim.

Actually your opinion doesn't really matter. Law is the law.

 

[TiGeo]

I thought what we call a performance all season in the states is what the Euros call a summer?

 

[Bailes1992]

I thought what we call a performance all season in the states is what the Euros call a summer?

Not really. We have Summer, All Season and Winter like you guys.

I notice a lot of the cheap Chineese 'off-brand' summer tyres having M+S designation. I wondered if it was a way of making a tyre that didn't quite conform to summer standards?

 

[Bjornviken]

I thought what we call a performance all season in the states is what the Euros call a summer?

don't know what you call your tires in the states, but i know what's classed as a winter tire and a summer tire over here. Fine system is based on year income over here in my country

Actually my bf Goodrich all terrain KO2 lacks the 3PMSF, wich makes it a summer tire by the law enforcement

 

[TiGeo]

Not really. We have Summer, All Season and Winter like you guys.

I notice a lot of the cheap Chineese 'off-brand' summer tyres having M+S designation. I wondered if it was a way of making a tyre that didn't quite conform to summer standards?

Example...I believe you don't get the Michelin PS4 all season over there....that tire would be considered a summer by Euro standards. Is that correct? Basically your "all seasons" have a more winter rating than what we class as all seasons here....right?

 

[Bailes1992]

Example...I believe you don't get the Michelin PS4 all season over there....that tire would be considered a summer by Euro standards. Is that correct? Basically your "all seasons" have a more winter rating than what we class as all seasons here....right?

We get the Michelin PS4 which is a summer tyre and has a totally different tread pattern to the PS4 All Season...

https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

We also get the Crossclimate here.

 

[TiGeo]

We get the Michelin PS4 which is a summer tyre and has a totally different tread pattern to the PS4 All Season...

https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

We also get the Crossclimate here.

I'm aware of the difference...still missing each other here.

IF you had the PS4 all season....it would be classed as a summer tire there is my understanding. The Crossclimate has a snow rating which is more "wintery" than most U.S. all seasons hence why it's called an all season in Euro.