Amsoil vs Amsoil/ 1990 Audi 100/2.3L

[TooSlick]

I've been saving this one for "Dr T"

Oil....Amsoil 10w-30,"ATM"/Amsoil 20w-50, "TRO"

Miles on engine, 167,000/145,000

Date of test ....2/21/2000, 10/4/1998

Miles on oil.....12,000/12,000

Makeup Oil .......1.0 qt/0.0 qt

Water............0.1%/
Fuel.............
TBN/ASTM D-2896...5.9/8.2


Wear Metals:

Fe, 62 ppm/20 ppm
Cr, 5 ppm/1 ppm
Pb, 15 ppm/7 ppm
Cu, 42 ppm/15 ppm
Sn, 1 ppm/0 ppm
Al, 14 ppm/6 ppm
Ni, 1 ppm/0 ppm

Silicon, 16 ppm/5 ppm


Oil Additives:

Boron, 16 ppm/39 ppm
Mg, 392 ppm/365 ppm
Ca, 3125 ppm/3020 ppm
P, 1260 ppm/978 ppm
Zn,1531 ppm/1280 ppm

Note: This is the previous 10w-30 chemistry that was changed in mid 2002. I believe the S2000, 20w-50 has been reformulated two times since 1998 ....

 

[Al]

Thicker is better.

Silicon could be part of the difference though. Also the 10W-30 had one quart of dilution. Its wear metals should have been somewhat lower and additives higher. So that makes more of a difference.

40 wt??????

 

[buster]

Look at the consumption, down to ZERO. Wear metals are drastically reduced. Very impressive test, thanks Ted. If I can reduce my oil consumption I will be one happy SOB.

However, this thread puts up a fight.

150,000 +

[ March 12, 2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[TooSlick]

Keep in mind, this is a high mileage engine ....For 1990 Model Year engines, VW/Audi recommended the following:

< 60F, 10w-30/10w-40
> 5f, 15w-40/15w-50
> 14F, 20w-50

German engineers are pretty smart guys when it comes to mechanical parts ....It's just too bad they haven't figured out how electrons work yet!

 

[GSV]

quote:

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German engineers are pretty smart guys when it comes to mechanical parts ....It's just too bad they haven't figured out how electrons work yet!

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You nailed it there.

 

[Patman]

The thick oils definitely work better here, which just proves how important oil analysis is. Instead of speculating on the proper viscosity for your engines, do some testing to help decide it.

Silicon could be a factor here too though, like Al mentioned, as the silicon was much less on the thick oil interval.

 

[Jay]

Speaking of viscosity--what was it? These two oils could both be 40-weights and we're looking at the difference in silicon.

 

[Dr. T]

Ted, that's great stuff. I was actually looking at using the Amsoil 10-40 I saw on the shelf recently for my next OCI...

 

[TooSlick]

Dr T,

I'm pretty much convinced that high mileage engines - say any engine with over 150k miles of hard use - do better with xw-40 or xw-50 grades in mild to hot weather. The bearing and ring/cylinder wall clearances do increase due to normal wear, even under ideal conditions.

The heavier grades also help to keep the vibrations caused by these larger clearances to a minimum, so the engines simply run smoother. Finally, a thicker lube does a better job of sealing "loose" piston rings, so compression improves and oil consumption significantly decreases.

For over two decades, the gold standard in Europe was a high quality, SAE 15w-40 for year round use, even in fairly cold climates. Now you see many more low vis oils, however I think this is being driven by concerns over fuel efficiency and the fact that fuel is very expensive in Europe. The use of even very high quality, 0w-20/5w-20 and 0w-30 synthetics may not be ideal in terms of optimum engine life - unless you live on the North Slope of Alaska

I strongly suspect that had I run this 20w-50 most of the year since it came out in 1995, I'd have an almost new Audi engine in terms of wear and compression....My independent Vw/Audi mechanic in towns runs this same 20w-50 synthetic year round and always has, even in fairly new engines.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Ted, that's great stuff. I was actually looking at using the Amsoil 10-40 I saw on the shelf recently for my next OCI...

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And you guys made fun of me for switching oils, this has to be your 5th or 6th different oil in two years isn't it Dr.T?

 

[Dr. T]

No doubt. Actually, even though I was looking at the Amsoil 10-40 (can't remember if I saw the 20-50 on the shelf though)...get this, I may go back to Syntec 5-50 as the current run of BMW 0-40 is displaying too much consumption for my taste.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Ted, you yourself have said iron is not affeced by vis...
And I don't believe that bearings are necessarily not affected by Si.
This is not an apples to apples comparison!
Got any analysis after these?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
No doubt. Actually, even though I was looking at the Amsoil 10-40 (can't remember if I saw the 20-50 on the shelf though)...get this, I may go back to Syntec 5-50 as the current run of BMW 0-40 is displaying too much consumption for my taste.

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I've been wondering why you didn't just stay with the 5w50 Syntec, it's cheap, readily available and you had good things to say about it in the past. Our local Walmart has only 1L of it left though. (but still has tons of 15w50 M1, including those really old API SJ "advanced formula" bottles!)

 

[TooSlick]

The most recent data I have on the Amsoil 10w-40 shows a high temp/high shear viscosity of 4.3 Cp @ 150C, so it's now a very robust formulation for high temp applications. The CCS viscosity @ -25C is 4240 Cp, so it would almost qualify as a 5w-40 in that respect, ie the CCS viscosity @ -30C would be about 7000 Cp.

I suspect they thickened "AMO" to work better in motorcycles and diesel engines ....The new additive chemistry is now also, ACEA "E5" and CAT, "ECF-1" rated, so the detergency is probably a bit higher than in the past.

Tooslick

 

[buster]

quote:

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The most recent data I have on the Amsoil 10w-40 shows a high temp/high shear viscosity of 4.3 Cp @ 150C, so it's now a very robust formulation for high temp applications

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Hmmm, another choice for the oil burning ricer?

HT/HS of 4.3 is sweet. I believe this oil has quite a bit of Calcium for ring sticking in deisel engines over long drains.

[ March 19, 2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Patman]

Buster, you should try that 10w40 instead of the 20w50.

 

[buster]

I think your right. But it's not as heavily friction modified as the other oils which could make my already slow car even slower.

I'm even thinking of RL 5w-40, 10w-30. Those are highly friction modified.

[ March 20, 2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
(but still has tons of 15w50 M1, including those really old API SJ "advanced formula" bottles!)

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How many years have those been collecting dust on that shelf? Seems like forever! Were these on the shelf before or after Rush's Moving Pictures album was released??

 

[Patman]

I think there is a coupon on the back of these old M1 bottles to get free tickets to a Flock of Seagulls concert!

 

[buster]

quote:

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Flock of Seagulls concert!

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Have you ever watched the VH1 show Bands Reunited? It's really good. They had Flock of Seagulls and Berlin on and had them get back together for a one night gig. I miss the 80's music. I'm hoping Sammy gets back with Van Halen!