AMSOIl versus AMSOIL -- Advice needed

[moribundman]

I'd like to hear some answers and suggestions in regard to using either AMSOIL Series 3000 5w30 HDD or AMSOIL 10w30 ACD in my friend's recently rebuilt Audi 2.8 V6 12 valve engine. For simplicity reasons, let me quote his question and concerns:

Quote:

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I have gone through a couple containers of Amsoil HHD (Series 3000 5w30 Heavy Duty Diesel) and it's good stuff. The engine found a little more power, had reduced crankcase pressure, and consumed a bit less oil than with 5w/10w-40 oils I used since my rebuild.

However, at $35/gallon (before discount) and still high oil consumption coming down from the valve seals on high RPMs (I decided to live with this for a while longer), I would like to find something a little more affordable and wanted to try their ACD (Synthetic 10w30/SAE 30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil).

At $25/gallon, I like ACD's lack of paraffin wax or viscosity improvers and its similarly high TBN of 12. I have a smidge of a worry about the HTHS of 3.4, but my engine runs cool and clean with my oil filtration set-up and should not cause too much heat stress upon the oil.

Here are the specifications:

HDD (what I use now):
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . 11.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . 64.6
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) . . . 174
Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity @ -25°C, cP (ASTM D 2602) . . . 5086
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97) . . . -50 (-58)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) . . . 228 (442)
Noack Volatility (DIN 51581) 250°C for 1 hour, % weight loss . . . 6.9
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP, 150°C, 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM D-4683) . . . 3.5
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm . . . 0.38
Total Base Number . . . 12.2

ACD:
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . 10.9
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) . . . 71.4
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) . . . 141
Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity @ -25°C, cP (ASTM D-2602) . . . 5165
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) . . . -38 (-36)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) . . . 232 (450)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) . . . 246 (475)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) . . . 6.3
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP, 150°C, 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM D-4683) . . . 3.4 (I called for this spec.)
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm) . . . 0.40
Total Base Number . . . 12.0

ACD also has these ratings:
* API CI-4+/CH-4/CG-4/SL
* API CF/CE/CD/CC
* API CF-2/CD-II
* Global DHD-1
* ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5
* JASO DH-1
* Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
* Detroit Diesel Power Guard 93K214
* Caterpillar ECF-1
* Cummins CES 20076/20077/20078 (current), 20071/20072 (older)
* Volvo VDS3/VDS2
* Mercedes Benz 228.1/228.3/229.1
* MAN 3275
* MTU Type 1
* MIL-PRF-2104G
* Allison C-4

How do these compare given your knowledge of oil (Any obvious weaknesses with ACD)?
Given your knowledge of the 12v and my mods (esp. TotalSeal Rings), do you see anything wrong in my using ACD in my 12v?

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AMSOIL guys, rise and shine!

 

[TooSlick]

Take a look at the specs on the Amsoil, 10w30 (API/SL), Four Stroke Marine oil (WCT). I just ordered some of this to run in my brand new Subaru and expect it to hold up very well.

WCT:

Vis @ 100C, 11.7 Cst
FP, +457F
PP, -51F
CCS @ -13F, 6000 Cp (thicker basestocks than the 10w30/ATM)
HT/HS viscosity, 3.64 CP @ 150C
HT/HS viscosity after 30 cycles through a Bosch injector: 3.60 Cp @ 150C (99.14% viscosity retention)
VI 152 (little or no polymeric thickeners)
TBN 10.5 - that's plenty for 10k-12k OCI's
Noack, 4.8%

For HiPo gas engines, I believe this is an even more robust formulation than the S3000. These NMMA FC-W, certified four stroke oils are tested w/ 8% fuel dilution, using an outboard motor in a big tank. As the kids say, this is some "Bomber" stuff.

They've left any diesel rating off of this because they don't want you using it in marine diesels. Their 15w40/AME is the preferred product there....

TS

 

[Pablo]

There are probably some best MPG arguments against using ACD in a gasser and maybe a discussion about the diesel centric add pack - however there are many features about ACD that would make it a good fit for his 12V. Top end protection should be excellent and leaking by the valve seals should be minimized.

 

[Ron AKA]

I understand that BITOG thinking considers selecting oil based on specifications herocy, but if you venture into that netherworld would it not make sense to start with the right fuel type?

 

[mburnickas]

I have always wondered why they do not test (real world) Series 3000 vs their HDD&M oil.

 

[moribundman]

Thanks to both you Amsoilers (hee-hee!). I shall relay your recommendations and thoughts.

Ron, finding an oil for the 12v engine isn't really easy, considering the available offerings. As for the use of a mixed fleet oil, no problem. Even VW/Audi list VW 505.00 (diesel engine spec oil) as suitable in the manual, as long as this oil also carries a gasoline engine oil rating. Don't forget the 12 engine, an old design, was discontinued in 1997. With many of the latest oils becoming a little weak (Flame away, folks!

), resorting to a little bit more stout mixed fleet oils seems reasonable. I got pretty good results with them.

 

[TooSlick]

Mike,

There are plenty of comparisons of the Amsoil 15w40 and Series 3000 on the various diesel pickup sites. My read of the oil analysis data is that the S3000 holds up better - particularly in terms of shearing - but that the significantly thicker "AME" provides slightly lower wear rates unless you're running a bypass filter to remove soot.

The S3000 is a much better mixed fleet oil for diesel/gas engines and is one reason why they formulated it as an SAE 5w30 instead of an SAE 5w40.

TS

 

[moribundman]

Will the rust inhibitors in the marine oil have any negative effect on a car engine?