Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF - Forumula Change

[chefwong]

I recall a older thread about this but can't find out. Just curious what is the difference between the old formula and new revision ?


I have a couple of the older bottles and a new batch of the newer stuff from Amsoil that arrived of their Universal ATF. Bottle A is the old clear bottles new bottles are solid grey. Will be using this in my ZF transmission that calls for Esso LT 71141 Fluid

 

[bmwtechguy]

Seems there was a slight viscosity change and along with that they have split the recommendations to match their lower and higher viscosity fluids. If you are talking about the change before this last one, I really cannot remember what actually changed except they may have added a couple more endorsements for other fluid types after testing its compatibility. I would use both together with confidence. Use up the original stuff first, of course. They are absolutely compatible.

 

[hate2work]

Amsoil now has two different Universal ATFs. The main difference is the viscosity. The ATL is the newest one and is the thinner one, designed for applications requiring DEXRON® VI, MERCON® LV, SP or Toyota WS. This was done for fuel economy I believe.

The "original" is called ATF, and is thicker than the ATL. I'm pretty sure this is the fluid you want to use in your ZF transmission.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Amsoil now has two different Universal ATFs. The main difference is the viscosity. The ATL is the newest one and is the thinner one, designed for applications requiring DEXRON® VI, MERCON® LV, SP or Toyota WS. This was done for fuel economy I believe.

The "original" is called ATF, and is thicker than the ATL. I'm pretty sure this is the fluid you want to use in your ZF transmission.


well somewhat for fuel economy. Really what they did was use a better base oil that is much more shear stable. So the fluid stays in grade now rather than starting high and shearing down to where they expected it. On top of that the fluids have a greater VI so they will be thinner when its cold outside than the older version. At least this is my understanding of what gm did with its dex6.

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil ATF

• GM DEXRON® III-H
• Ford MERCON® & MERCON V
• Chrysler ATF+4®
• Toyota Type T-III and T-IV
• Honda Z-1 (Not CVT)
• Diamond SP II & III (Mitsubishi/Hyundai/Kia)
• Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV
• Subaru ATF
• Nissan Matic D, J & K
• Idemitsu K-17
• BMW LA2634
• LT 71141
• Audi G-052-025-A2 & G-052-162-A1
• Volvo 97340
• MB 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9 & 236.10
• JWS 3309
• NAG 1
• ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B & N402
• Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363)
• ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 14C, 16L, 17C
• Allison C-4, TES 389

Amsoil ATL

DEXRON® VI
MERCON® LV, SP
Toyota WS.

This was a plain wise move by Amsoil. ATF to cover the Dex III, Honda, etc higher viscosity applications and ATL for the new lighter apps. We all know DEX VI is backward compatible, but is the lighter viscosity always the best choice? I think not. The old argument that Dex III variants always sheared anyway, while somewhat true, does not typically apply to a well made synthetic ATF.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: Pablo


This was a plain wise move by Amsoil. ATF to cover the Dex III, Honda, etc higher viscosity applications and ATL for the new lighter apps. We all know DEX VI is backward compatible, but is the lighter viscosity always the best choice? I think not. The old argument that Dex III variants always sheared anyway, while somewhat true, does not typically apply to a well made synthetic ATF.


But at the same time you have to ask did the engineers take the sheer of the fluid into consideration when the transmission was designed. So that the optimal viscosity is actually less than what the the spec calls for?

This question has only come about as of lately that shear stable oils and fluids can be made with out expensive components. You can look at the 5w20 for this. Older conventional 5w30s would shear to high 5w20s a lot of the time. So in the end what is the difference of a older 5w30 and 5w20 that both end up at close to the same spot.


Yes I know gm doesn't spec dex6 for transfer cases but I don't know how much shear and actual use is seen in those applications.

Really just some musing in my head over the whole move to thinner thing and your post kind of just brought it to the front of my thoughts.

 

[Pablo]

They may very well have, but does this mean there would be a problem before the oil sheared, like when the car is new? Pretty unlikely IMHO.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
But at the same time you have to ask did the engineers take the sheer of the fluid into consideration when the transmission was designed. So that the optimal viscosity is actually less than what the the spec calls for?


In the case of GM I would have to say yes since they specified that the DexronVI fluid should not shear to less than a certain vscosity. In most case the fluid starts out around 6.0 cSt@100C and I have yet to see it shear to less than 4.9 cSt.


Quote:
This question has only come about as of lately that shear stable oils and fluids can be made with out expensive components. You can look at the 5w20 for this. Older conventional 5w30s would shear to high 5w20s a lot of the time. So in the end what is the difference of a older 5w30 and 5w20 that both end up at close to the same spot.


I wouldn't say the new additive components are less expensive. The newer add components are just better in terms of shear resistance.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
But at the same time you have to ask did the engineers take the sheer of the fluid into consideration when the transmission was designed. So that the optimal viscosity is actually less than what the the spec calls for?


In the case of GM I would have to say yes since they specified that the DexronVI fluid should not shear to less than a certain vscosity. In most case the fluid starts out around 6.0 cSt@100C and I have yet to see it shear to less than 4.9 cSt.


Quote:
This question has only come about as of lately that shear stable oils and fluids can be made with out expensive components. You can look at the 5w20 for this. Older conventional 5w30s would shear to high 5w20s a lot of the time. So in the end what is the difference of a older 5w30 and 5w20 that both end up at close to the same spot.


I wouldn't say the new additive components are less expensive. The newer add components are just better in terms of shear resistance.


I meant in terms of what it would cost to get the same shear stability we have now with past technology. Aka what it would cost to make say dex 6 10 to 15 years ago or a 5w20 to fords spec 20 years ago.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
They may very well have, but does this mean there would be a problem before the oil sheared, like when the car is new? Pretty unlikely IMHO.


No I was just saying that it was less than optimal. What I am saying is that they knew they couldn't economically make a fluid that stayed really close to the right point. So they went with one that would stay in a workable range over its life. To do this they started higher than they needed to be.

 

[Pablo]

Probably could have been. Kind of a moot point. It's not like it makes much difference except when very hot anyway. Either fluid will be more viscous than 7.0 cSt when it's lower than 90°C (or whatever less than 100°C)