Amsoil Synthetic Blend Engine Oils

Yes. It’s not an “I think” it’s an “I know” thing.


P66 did the same thing and failed with a “premium” Synthetic blend. As I said, another major brand is following suit right now with the same concept. Another brand, did the same thing regionally. And I don’t think it was ever blended. Even though it was formulated, marketed and “launched.”


Respectfully, I’m probably one of the most qualified people in the U.S. to say anything about that market.

They can do whatever they want. But, that market is very, very hard to compete in. And it’s also, a dying market.
So, by your supposition, Amsoil decided to bring to market a new product while either 1) not knowing the potential size and/or growth of the market they're competing in or 2) knowing about the relevant data which showed a "dying" market and deciding to spend the money anyways?

Despite your qualifications, I'm sure Amsoil saw valid reasons to develop and market this product.
 
I'd say it's more about providing a cheaper entry level option for introducing you to Amsoil. I haven't checked pricing to see if it's feasible but I would have no issues whatsoever using this oil in my vehicles.
 
So, by your supposition, Amsoil decided to bring to market a new product while either 1) not knowing the potential size and/or growth of the market they're competing in or 2) knowing about the relevant data which showed a "dying" market and deciding to spend the money anyways?

Despite your qualifications, I'm sure Amsoil saw valid reasons to develop and market this product.


Yep. They definitely did.

Anyone trying to get into the synthetic blend market right now, which is a very, very mature and fading market, didn’t do their research well enough.

I see 0 valid reasons to get into that market right now. Especially someone LIKE amsoil, who sells a premium product and markets the way they do.

Group III’s are the way of the future. Just stick to a synthetic. If you’re going to price fight, be prepared to get real bloody.


Amsoil, if you’re reading this. Wanna sell it well below $5 a gallon? DM me. Actually, you already have my contact info. We talked together about your industrial products.
 
Yep. They definitely did.

Anyone trying to get into the synthetic blend market right now, which is a very, very mature and fading market, didn’t do their research well enough.

I see 0 valid reasons to get into that market right now. Especially someone LIKE amsoil, who sells a premium product and markets the way they do.

Group III’s are the way of the future. Just stick to a synthetic. If you’re going to price fight, be prepared to get real bloody.


Amsoil, if you’re reading this. Wanna sell it well below $5 a gallon? DM me. Actually, you already have my contact info. We talked together about your industrial products.
Interesting, your hubris is astounding. You somehow fail to acknowledge that they may see something that you don't. Despite your qualifications, and your apparent chats with Amsoil, I'm sure that they have market insights that they're not passing along. Good chat.
 
Interesting, your hubris is astounding. You somehow fail to acknowledge that they may see something that you don't. Despite your qualifications, and your apparent chats with Amsoil, I'm sure that they have market insights that they're not passing along. Good chat.


When you’re one of the top 10 sellers of PCMO products in the U.S., your opinion might change.


I am, one of those sellers. Probably somewhere between 5 and 7 on any given year.


You do you. I do me. Me, in this case, is moving tens of millions of gallons of motor oils. So yeah, I actually probably have a better handle on the syn blend market than amsoil does. Because they’re my customers.
 
Like the old stuff, just not quite as good.

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People will change their tune when this blend from Amsoil starts throwing out UOAs like GC and Magnatec did.
I’ll pose the question;
What percentage of engine oil is sold on the do it yourself DIY market?
What percentage of DIY sales goes to “boutique” brands?
What percentage of DIY boutique customers buy synthetic blends?
What percentage of those DIY boutique synthetic blend customers are going to bother with UOAs and post them here?

Foxtrot pointed out the glut on the market. Part of the reason could be that companies like Petro-Canada are not selling product to select countries in Eastern Europe.
Instead of slowing or shutting down their lube plant, they may be offering rail car loads of synthetic blend for $100,000 each plus shipping and daily car lease rate.
For easy math, assume a 100 cubic meter car capacity. One cubic meter is 1,000 litres.
The rail car contents in pounds is 100,000 X 2.2 X approximately 85% which is the specific weight density of engine oil.
If the loaded car weighs 143 tons (286 loading) what does the car weigh when empty?
Edit; So why would Amsoil suddenly roll out synthetic blend engine oil? Maybe because they can buy it for a dollar a quart and sell it for $8.
 
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When you’re one of the top 10 sellers of PCMO products in the U.S., your opinion might change.


I am, one of those sellers. Probably somewhere between 5 and 7 on any given year.


You do you. I do me. Me, in this case, is moving tens of millions of gallons of motor oils. So yeah, I actually probably have a better handle on the syn blend market than amsoil does. Because they’re my customers.
I actually don't know why you post here, with us mortals.

But since you state this so, what EXACTLY do you sell to Amsoil?
 
Who wants to run the 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil, do a couple UOA's?

A car with no known mechanical issues, engine calls for 5W-20 or lower 100°C viscosity.

PM Me. I will supply the oil and two UOA's via reimbursement. You order it via PC with me, I reimburse. It will be public, so follow through is required.
I have a 14 Sierra 6.2 that I’d run some 0w20 in (I have Mobil 1 ep in it rn)
 
I actually don't know why you post here, with us mortals.

But since you state this so, what EXACTLY do you sell to Amsoil?


They approached me, to sell their industrial line up. When it wasn’t branded amsoil industrial, but when it was branded Severast or something like that.

Why post? Because it’s fun. Why not? Why do you do it?

I’m young enough to be a child of the internet. So I don’t see why I wouldn’t?
 
I actually don't know why you post here, with us mortals.

But since you state this so, what EXACTLY do you sell to Amsoil?


Not to really double tap on this point.

But, would you rather me not post? Honest question.

Yeah, STLE-CLS, life time in the lubricants business, owner of one of the largest, literally the owner of brand(s) mentioned on here before. But also, honestly not here to sell anything.

Sure, I have unpopular opinions on popular brands, blends, markets. But, they’re from a completely different perspective as, essentially anyone else here.

Would you rather, not, have that perspective/opinion?
 
Not to really double tap on this point.

But, would you rather me not post? Honest question.

Yeah, STLE-CLS, life time in the lubricants business, owner of one of the largest, literally the owner of brand(s) mentioned on here before. But also, honestly not here to sell anything.

Sure, I have unpopular opinions on popular brands, blends, markets. But, they’re from a completely different perspective as, essentially anyone else here.

Would you rather, not, have that perspective/opinion?

I like hearing about the industry and all the extra bits of information myself. Almost everything else on this website has been nothing but rehashing of old topics so this is refreshing to me.
 
I think the word "blend" in general, scares the "Synthetic" people. it's like cousin of dino wanting to borrow money from you. lol

Then we have the hard-core fancy/boutique syn users. To them blend will be like the 3rd cousin.

You would think the quick lube places can only market inexpensive blends for the average consumer.

Can you lure in for example M1 Syn users to a fancy blend? I doubt it.

I could be wrong in all of the above but are there any other market for a fancy blend?
 
I think the word "blend" in general, scares the "Synthetic" people. it's like cousin of dino wanting to borrow money from you. lol

Then we have the hard-core fancy/boutique syn users. To them blend will be like the 3rd cousin.

You would think the quick lube places can only market inexpensive blends for the average consumer.

Can you lure in for example M1 Syn users to a fancy blend? I doubt it.

I could be wrong in all of the above but are there any other market for a fancy blend?


So let’s look at the volume side of the synthetic blend market. Really two spaces here:

OEM fill - Ford, for example hasn’t moved passed syn blends (yet), Some Subaru, some CJDR, and some other brands. These are your dealership programs. Dealerships are strongly advised to use their program.

And you have the Quick Lube or “installer” marker / independent auto shops.


Amsoil is not going after the dealer market with this product. So, let’s look at the installer market.

Could a one off indecent shop buy this product? Sure. But if they’re already not worried about price, and their customer base is loyal to them, why wouldn’t they just upsell to a full synthetic?

The quick lube market is nearly all price driven. Why? Because when you’re doing say, 150 oil changes a day. That adds up. And because you’re the price taker.

Who is the price maker? Well, first off the OEM dealership. After that, your branded chains - Jiffy Lube (Shell) VIOC (Valvoline). They carry a major brand that will command a price premium.


So your quick lubes have to settle in below them for price. Does a “brand” Help? Maybe, in some markets yes, in other markets, no. Do you have a retail gasoline station with a wide presence in that state? If so, then a brand will help because its market recognition. If the brand does not, then it won’t help much. Because you’re then reduced to price fighting.

Example of this is Take 5. They were branded Castrol for a long time, with a Mobil 1 upsell. Now, I believe they’re almost exclusively Duramax from Reladyne. Which, is a house brand just like mine.

So you’re reduced to price fighting. You can’t command the margin needed to carry all the overhead of a brand. So you need to trim all that off and get bloody on price.

Most of the world is not BITOG. People who care about their oil (users here) will do research, read and pick their favorite brand. boutique, synthetic, brand, whatever you want to go with. Pick your price point and go with it. Amsoil really dominates this market place - the DIY customers. They can command a premium for it. After that is your mass market synthetics - Mobil 1, PUP, etc.


Your “I care about my car, but I don’t change my own oil” market, goes to the dealership.

The “I don’t trust the dealership, but I want a brand” goes to Jiffy, VIOC type places.

Then finally, like my S/O before she met me, “my car has wheels, most of the time. And I think it takes oil” types to a quick lube is near by and open. Most people fall into this category.


Does that last group of people, care about a brand? They probably don’t even know brands. So upselling them is hard - let alone their price point of what they’re willing to spend.


The reason why I said this is a mature, fading market is the volume. 5-6 years ago, we used to in bound ~24 tanker loads of synthetic blends a week between my different divisions. Now it’s about ~7. Flip side of that, we would in bound 2-3 a week of full synthetics in that same period. Now we in bound probably 10-12 full synthetics loads a week. Volume is down over all on the PCEO market and will continue to decrease for the foreseeable future at about a 7% year over year rate.

Extended drain intervals (whether you believe in them or not is another thread), EVs and also, most importantly - people going back to the dealership.

Dealership business is booming. Dealerships want to capture that market. Get people coming in the doors, into the service bays, into the show rooms. Average age of cars is going up. And they want to sell cars.

The DIY business is also, very good right now. Because people want to save money. Changing your own oil, with a full synthetic, is an easy way to save what? $100 vs a dealership? Times 2 cars, twice a year - who wouldn’t want to save $400 or so if you use a full synthetic, name brand, a year. Or more?

Maybe amsoil will get some DIY’ers on it. But the volume there is basically going to be robbed from the full synthetic line up. Which, they already do a good job at. Which, goes back to why? More SKUs, more base oils to get in / store, more additives. Your cost of acquiring a consumer isn’t going down. Your overhead is going to go up. Just… I don’t get it.

I’ve worked my butt off to change our direction out of the PCEO market over the last 5 years. And to focus more on the Commercial and Industrial market where, the majority of the market cares about the products. Is there the volume in say, a cold heading lubricant, that there is syn blend PCEO? No. But, better margins and more sustainable business.

We all know HPL’s big business is compressor oils. It’s that for a reason. Mobil controls a lot of the C&I world. Citgo’s bread and butter is trucking. P66 used to be the name in Mining fluids. Chevron is natural gas compression and Agricultural. Etc.

Amsoil has a great name in the DIY market place. I just don’t see this as being a good fit with their super premium branding.
 
Amsoil really dominates this market place - the DIY customers. They can command a premium for it. After that is your mass market synthetics - Mobil 1, PUP, etc.
Great post. Do we have any good data on market share by brand? It'd be interesting to see how much market share Amsoil has in the DIY market vs. Mobil 1/Pennzoil. I think the story can be quite telling if the data gets granular enough.
 
Great post. Do we have any good data on market share by brand? It'd be interesting to see how much market share Amsoil has in the DIY market vs. Mobil 1/Pennzoil. I think the story can be quite telling if the data gets granular enough.


Not anything super up to date. Last time I saw a full breakdown of PCEO market share was a while ago. I believe it was presented at ILMA this year, but I didn’t go as I was with another company in Europe. And I’ll be honest, no real reason to hunt it down. (Or pay for it.)

I’m sure it’s out there.

Only market share I’ve seen more recently is HDEO.


I think the more important question, isn’t so much gallons. But dollars. Amsoil moves less gallons, but commands a much higher price point with a lower cost of consumer acquisition. Mobil / Shell spend a ton of money to acquire their customers. NASCAR, F1, all those sponsorships, TV advertisements, billboards, branding all over the place. That’s all to draw eye balls. And is very expensive to do. We ran a co-branded marketing campaign with a major brand a bit ago - a shocking amount of money was spent by the major, with very little return.

If you move, let’s say 200 million gallons of PCEO. But you have to spend 200-300 million on advertising, coupons, sales at Walmart, etc. how much profit is really left?

Where Amsoil might move 20 million gallons at 10x the margin because they’re not doing that same branding campaigns. And giving it away to Walmart.
 
Not to really double tap on this point.

But, would you rather me not post? Honest question.

Yeah, STLE-CLS, life time in the lubricants business, owner of one of the largest, literally the owner of brand(s) mentioned on here before. But also, honestly not here to sell anything.

Sure, I have unpopular opinions on popular brands, blends, markets. But, they’re from a completely different perspective as, essentially anyone else here.

Would you rather, not, have that perspective/opinion?
I think you did not understand my question! I have zero problem with you personally posting. Your information while not directly verifiable is very interesting. That question was rhetorical. Thanks for the information, and perhaps the change of tone. Maybe best if you use "we" instead of so many "I" statements.

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You said Amsoil is "my customer". You also said a couple things about talking about selling Amsoil Industrial.

So back to my real question. If Amsoil is YOUR customer, what exactly do they BUY FROM you?
 
I think you did not understand my question! I have zero problem with you personally posting. Your information while not directly verifiable is very interesting. That question was rhetorical. Thanks for the information, and perhaps the change of tone. Maybe best if you use "we" instead of so many "I" statements.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You said Amsoil is "my customer". You also said a couple things about talking about selling Amsoil Industrial.

So back to my real question. If Amsoil is YOUR customer, what exactly do they BUY FROM you?


From this statement? “So yeah, I actually probably have a better handle on the syn blend market than amsoil does. Because they’re my customers.”



I was referring to the market of people/companies that buy Synthetic blends. Not amsoil being my customer. (Although it’s entirely possible about 10 years ago they were.)
 
I'm not so sure how desirable this is at $8 quart, even after reading some of the justifications here.

I, personally, have never used an AMSOIL product, but used to ride my Harley (Sportster 1200) with a bunch of guys I worked with. A lot of them wouldn't use anything but Amsoil. Yet, some, good Ole Charlie L., dumped white bottle Castrol 20W-50 conventional and an ugly FRAM orange can spun on. He was a die hard Harley rider. Rode it everywhere, year round (It was Georgia, but can still get cold!) He used to laugh at all of them for spending the money. Can't say he was wrong, he put a zillion miles on that thing. Oil and filter he used didn't seem to slow it down. He would, sometimes, use 20W-50 Havoline conventional.
 
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