Kind of what I'm thinking. This has all coincided with their growth over the years - high mileage oils, blends, OE oils etc. One stop shop. As long as they keep their top tiers at the highest level, I don't see it being a problem, otherwise what's the point in using a "boutique" brand anyway? I only seek out boutique brands for the highest quality oil available.
Amsoil Synthetic Blend Engine Oils
- Thread starter The Critic
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I said in the Amsoil OE thread that the brand was cashing in on their reputation to offer lower-tier products at inflated prices, and this further bolsters my belief in that.
They seem to be focused on working their way down-market lately to offer "value" options, but their lower-tier options don't actually present a good value. An Amsoil blend at $8+ per quart is, imo, simply paying for the name. Like everybody else here, I'll go with Mobil 1 or similar instead.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I have no issue with this. Some of you act as if they're making you buy it. Taking shots just because. Amsoil is one of the most reputable companies around. I'd wager their SB 0w20 rivals some major brands entry synthetics but that's my opinion.
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Actually Pablo I don't think it was necessary to go a notch below their OE line. I'm an Amsoil user but I really don't see the point. I like the OE 5w30 with it's 3.3 HTHS and still within RC parameters, but this stuff? A big NO!
Spec sheets, VOAs & PDSs don’t tell you anything about the relative performance of an oil. You can’t smell antioxidant levels nor feel additive quality. It’s like trying to read tea leaves on the Lubrizol website comparing oil specs, after they CLEARLY tell you that it can’t be done like that. Upfront cost is rarely a good indicator of the “all-in” cost of an oil, unless you’re blindly changing it at a given mileage.
I’ve proven (with data) that it’s cheaper for me to run HPL No ViI Euro than it is “cheap” QSFS. And I even changed the HPL long before it was “used up” and that was at almost 16k OCI, lol. Others have done the same exercises with Amsoil numerous times and shown similar results. Amsoil sells quality products.
For you to essentially claim that Amsoil is ripping off customers while you have no experience about the product or its performance Is pretty sad. Sure, it may be more expensive than competition. That doesn’t mean that all the customer is getting for their $$ is an Amsoil sticker on the bottle.
No.But isn’t your car worth it?
The value proposition isn’t there…unless you’re benchmarking the cost against synthetic blend at AutoZone’s retail prices.
I think the supply chain for Group III, GTL and PAO might be disturbed. I'm not in the business to know, but making a guess wouldn't hurt at this point. A lot of manufacturers have reformulated their products to keep their heads above the water.
Thinking that people who purchase Amsoil target Autozone as their benchmark is the same error that caused Cadillac to end up with the Cimarron.
I agree, it seems expensive for a blend. I’m not defending Amsoil’s marketing team here. But at the bare minimum Amsoil’s other products have shown they’re not peddling junk wares. It’s not like Amsoil made any outlandish claims with this line. Let’s see what it does on its own.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
According to Amsoil's testing the VI properties are:
According to Lubes and Greases GrpIII base oils are squarely in this range:
https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine/28_2/base-oils-and-their-applications/
Source: API
Group I base oils are usually solvent extracted and dewaxed oils with viscosity indexes in the 80s, sulfur levels above 0.03% wt. and saturates less than 90%. The crude source makes a big difference in the type of Group I base stock produced. My experience with them includes a very naphthenic crude, which resulted in a 90N (very volatile), a 300N and a bright stock. I also worked with a more paraffinic crude, which produced a 100N, a mid-viscosity neutral and bright stock. In addition, there are such byproducts as lube extracts, waxes and asphalt.
Group II base oils are produced using hydrogen in a process called hydrogenation or hydrotreating. Group III base oils are made in much the same way as Group II mineral oils, except the hydrogenation process is coupled with high temperatures and high pressures. The cracked material is then separated into viscosity grades, dewaxed catalytically and finished with mild hydrotreating. The result is two or three viscosities of high VI (over 90 for Group II and 120 for Group III), virtually no sulfur (<0.03% wt) and saturates well into the 90%+ range. Because of the cracking process, no bright stock is produced and wax is relatively nonexistent. No extracts are produced, either. Group IV is reserved for polyalphaolefins, which are truly synthetic and are produced from a specific stream refined from crude.
Among the products in Group V are naphthenics. These base oils from naphthenic crudes are processed in various ways, including solvent treated and hydrotreated. There is no specific processing used or set limits on VI, sulfur or saturates. They are often distilled to various viscosity cuts without further treatment.
Group II base oils represent the majority of base oils refined in North America. The move to Group II was facilitated by the fact that a wider slate of crudes could be used and that there were less yield losses because the reduced crude was essentially “cleaned up” by the process. Less yield loss, wider crude slate processing and higher-quality finished product is a no brainer.
To a great extent, the properties of base oils dictate how they are used. In almost all cases, the finished products that are produced owe a lot to the additive technology that goes into any application. Additives typically improve the oil properties (e.g. pour point depressants), protect the base oil (e.g. antioxidants) or protect the lubricated surface (e.g. corrosion inhibitors).
According to Lubes and Greases GrpIII base oils are squarely in this range:
https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine/28_2/base-oils-and-their-applications/
Source: API
Group II base oils are produced using hydrogen in a process called hydrogenation or hydrotreating. Group III base oils are made in much the same way as Group II mineral oils, except the hydrogenation process is coupled with high temperatures and high pressures. The cracked material is then separated into viscosity grades, dewaxed catalytically and finished with mild hydrotreating. The result is two or three viscosities of high VI (over 90 for Group II and 120 for Group III), virtually no sulfur (<0.03% wt) and saturates well into the 90%+ range. Because of the cracking process, no bright stock is produced and wax is relatively nonexistent. No extracts are produced, either. Group IV is reserved for polyalphaolefins, which are truly synthetic and are produced from a specific stream refined from crude.
Among the products in Group V are naphthenics. These base oils from naphthenic crudes are processed in various ways, including solvent treated and hydrotreated. There is no specific processing used or set limits on VI, sulfur or saturates. They are often distilled to various viscosity cuts without further treatment.
Group II base oils represent the majority of base oils refined in North America. The move to Group II was facilitated by the fact that a wider slate of crudes could be used and that there were less yield losses because the reduced crude was essentially “cleaned up” by the process. Less yield loss, wider crude slate processing and higher-quality finished product is a no brainer.
To a great extent, the properties of base oils dictate how they are used. In almost all cases, the finished products that are produced owe a lot to the additive technology that goes into any application. Additives typically improve the oil properties (e.g. pour point depressants), protect the base oil (e.g. antioxidants) or protect the lubricated surface (e.g. corrosion inhibitors).
Who wants to run the 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil, do a couple UOA's?
A car with no known mechanical issues, engine calls for 5W-20 or lower 100°C viscosity.
PM Me. I will supply the oil and two UOA's via reimbursement. You order it via PC with me, I reimburse. It will be public, so follow through is required.
A car with no known mechanical issues, engine calls for 5W-20 or lower 100°C viscosity.
PM Me. I will supply the oil and two UOA's via reimbursement. You order it via PC with me, I reimburse. It will be public, so follow through is required.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I also don't recall another "SB" recommending use where dexos1Gen3 is required:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3882.pdf
APPLICATIONS
Use AMSOIL Synthetic-Blend Motor Oil in applications that REQUIREANY OF THE FOLLOWING SPECIlCATIONS
0W-20
(SB020)API SP
(Resource Conserving)
SN Plus, SN
ILSAC GF-6A, GF-5,GF-4
GM dexos1* Gen 3
Chrysler MS-6395
Ford WSS-M2C962-A
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3882.pdf
APPLICATIONS
Use AMSOIL Synthetic-Blend Motor Oil in applications that REQUIREANY OF THE FOLLOWING SPECIlCATIONS
0W-20
(SB020)API SP
(Resource Conserving)
SN Plus, SN
ILSAC GF-6A, GF-5,GF-4
GM dexos1* Gen 3
Chrysler MS-6395
Ford WSS-M2C962-A
If there is no range for some properties, is the value normally close to the number given?
For example TBN is >= 6, so would we assume it's not 11, but right around 6 ~ 7
HTHS >= 2.6 would probably not be 3.5?
Seems like they would specify a range.
For example TBN is >= 6, so would we assume it's not 11, but right around 6 ~ 7
HTHS >= 2.6 would probably not be 3.5?
Seems like they would specify a range.
They’re leaving themselves room to use slightly different materials if needed without having to either update PDSs or leave incorrect PDSs posted like Castrol frequently does. What’s wrong with posting a greater than, or range with the oil? The minimum is really the only thing that matters in almost all cases.
Besides, it’s a certain grade oil. It carries a statement from Amsoil that it meets all those certifications or approvals, which means it will carry at least the minimums required by those specs. If it doesn’t, then that’s when the flag needs raised.
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- 865
I'd say give them a few years and they'll become mainstream like the rest of the majors. I remember walking into an Advance Auto Parts store about a month ago and seeing the Amsoil OE oil quart bottles on the self selection. The price was around 14-15 dollars per quart if I remember.
Free Oil from Pablo, how many of us can get in on this? My car recommends 5K OCI's.
Is it a couple of UOA's or two UOA's?
Just first person. No takers yet.
Couple = two. So two 5K runs, no charge with a UOA after each. Easiest just to buy a case (12 qts), and two pre-paid UOA kits, just one reimbursement.
PM me and we will get the details ironed out.
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